zoom AKc 4b pot co/bu vs unknown

Do you normally bet small on all streets?
OTF and OTT those aren't even 1/2 pot
Or is that pretty standard in Hold'em these days?

River seems easy bet/fold -- and this is from the guy whose worst habit is calling river bets.

Preflop could go either way, call or 4bet.
Flop ok. Either check or bet small.
From GTO perspective I believe turn is a bet (small again)/call line or a check. Flushes shouldn't be raising, not even the nutflush.
Knowing what NL10 looks like, you're better off folding.

Id call i think your sizing could be inducing quite a lot here.I also think this is a board where we want to go bigger on the flop to set up a turn shove on non diamonds and just play 2 streets.

Hello,

I really like your play here and I think you can call there, unless you have solid reads on the villain.
Your bet OTT will induce some shoves, broadways with diamonds and especially hands like AdT-Q will sometimes shove there so I's just call it.

Interesting hand btw

I’m with Reds. You’re just asking to be bluffed by a draw there. As I was reading the hand I literally thought that you were trying to get the villain to bluff jam over the top.

The obvious and simple play is to bet the flop a normal size and then jam the turn. Im guessing you are scared of the villains flush but there is no need to be. We’ll lose stacks to it. Fine. Now we need to look at all the other hands in his range and see if we can make enough off them to cover the cost.

Nuts flush draws usually give us a full stack here if we just bet and barrel jam. This will cover the cost of the losses to the flushes with room to spare. Hands like AQ with a flush draw might well jam and give us loads of money on average. Any pair with a draw calls. We’re laughing when we just bet a standard size and then jam a standard turn.

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Do you normally bet small on all streets?
OTF and OTT those aren't even 1/2 pot
Or is that pretty standard in Hold'em these days?

River seems easy bet/fold -- and this is from the guy whose worst habit is calling river bets.

You see Vorpal, your problem isn’t calling the later streets. Your problem is failing to follow the ranges through to the later streets. This guy wakes up with a jam and you presume he must have the nuts without following the action.

Our perceived range by the time we get to the turn is very weak, and so we expect jams from all kinds of draws and value alike. This one is a call.

Ok, so the villain could have a flush, but what are we saying, he has 2 combos of said flush? 3? I suppose he could always jam a set or something now that we’ve shown him we’re weak. But I think that even if we add these combos to his range we’re still making money from just the AQ and AJ with FD that is bluffing.

You need to FOLLOW the ranges Vorpal. Everytime you or the villain makes a decision you change your understanding of that persons range. If you do this you won’t get confused and spaz out with those calls anymore.

You’d also call this one.

Yea without information I think it was the optimal play and I cannot fold. He should't have Axd flushes/AJd, ADd/ in there and he shouldn't have other flushes in 4b pot especially after he just call OTF, so I did call! I was thinking actually, that I am loosing only to TT and AdKo.
Unfortunately I showed 87d. Note taken He will pay in the future

AQ and AJ are among his most likely holdings coming into the flop, and the betsize you chose doesn’t leave him a nice raise on the flop so these may float.

Low suited connectors are popularly played like this, but so is AQo and AJo. I think it’s an easy call, however, I prefer to just bet normal and jam the turn.

Originally posted by yadijavadi

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Do you normally bet small on all streets?
OTF and OTT those aren't even 1/2 pot
Or is that pretty standard in Hold'em these days?

River seems easy bet/fold -- and this is from the guy whose worst habit is calling river bets.

You see Vorpal, your problem isn’t calling the later streets. Your problem is failing to follow the ranges through to the later streets. This guy wakes up with a jam and you presume he must have the nuts without following the action.

Our perceived range by the time we get to the turn is very weak, and so we expect jams from all kinds of draws and value alike. This one is a call.

Ok, so the villain could have a flush, but what are we saying, he has 2 combos of said flush? 3? I suppose he could always jam a set or something now that we’ve shown him we’re weak. But I think that even if we add these combos to his range we’re still making money from just the AQ and AJ with FD that is bluffing.

You need to FOLLOW the ranges Vorpal. Everytime you or the villain makes a decision you change your understanding of that persons range. If you do this you won’t get confused and spaz out with those calls anymore.

You’d also call this one.

So what range would villain have to have that would give him reason to call a monochrome flop, and jam the turn with a
What do you think his range is?
Does it include pocket 4s? Ks? Ts?

you said:

I prefer to just bet normal and jam the turn.

This is the point I was trying to make. The bets OTF and OTT by hero are small -- small enough that villain might think he can call on a monochrome board with his set or baby flush.
I can't see many players jamming off a 135 BB stack with air.
Our hand has few redraws, and none that beat a possible made flush and few that beat a set.
If hero at bet larger pre-flop and OTF, his bets have authority, and signal strength.

Again my question:
Are such small bets standard in Hold'em these days?
If so, this is what happens...

As for following ranges, his range is a bit surprising consider he 4-Bet with low suited connectors, but a hand like this only has to happen once in a while for it to be profitable long-term I suppose.

Obv I didn't know he is that bad to call me 24bb 4b PRF with that hand and to call me OTF! If I knew that I would find the fold;) I really hope to play more with him=). I have almost all nut flushes in that particular spot, TT, AA and Adx;)

Vorpal...

The villain could call with all sorts when you bet so small on the flop:

You can take most the sets out of his range due to his preflop action. Of course he doesn’t have 44 in his range! The only set is TT. He could also have AQ or AJ with just one flush card. He could have KQ. He could have the T with a flush card.

All of these hands could turn themselves into a bluff/semi bluff after our two tiny post flop bets. There is only around 6 combos of hands that we don’t beat. TT. AQd AJd and another random flush or two.

... Betting so small is not standard in these games or any other. If you want to bet such a scary board you generally have to bet quite big or you are telling the villain you don’t have the nuts and are asking him to bluff.

This hero “vengeance” did a good job of repping a hand that folds to the jam. He looked like he had some kind of draw like AQ with one diamond. or underpair like QQ.

If you follow these ranges from the beginning. The villain has lots of weak hands and almost no hands that beat us. We look like we have a weak hand, containing very little that can call a bluff. When you can see these ranges in your mind it becomes obvious that the villain will often bluff jam that turn and so we will make money with the call

We actually beat some hands, that he will push for value as well!

"Knowing what NL 10 looks like, you're better off folding."

I'm just going to fold.

Originally posted by vengeance77
Yea without information I think it was the optimal play and I cannot fold. He should't have Axd flushes/AJd, ADd/ in there and he shouldn't have other flushes in 4b pot especially after he just call OTF, so I did call! I was thinking actually, that I am loosing only to TT and AdKo.
Unfortunately I showed 87d. Note taken He will pay in the future

Hi

I am waiting most of the Axs and AJo hands in his pre call range against your CO open. Did you not think so?
What do you think about his pre call range against your 4bet?

I'm wondering if not having the Ad here is actually good for our hand it gives villain combo's like AdQx that can call off.So holding the Ad might not be so good for us in this specific spot but i have no idea whether that's true or not.