pocket 4s facing a 3Bet

Against hands like AK or implieds are probably not good enough. If they miss, we likely get only a c-bet out of it. But I am curious to about the opinion of others. I had in the back of my mind something like we need 1/20 stack ratios. For sure oop.

I mostly fold I think and call 77+. You need to draw the line somewhere, which pairs you call and which not. GL!

Originally posted by 1d4BestByTest
Against hands like AK or implieds are probably not good enough. If they miss, we likely get only a c-bet out of it. But I am curious to about the opinion of others. I had in the back of my mind something like we need 1/20 stack ratios. For sure oop.

The old rule was "call 20"[1] — if the effective stack was 20 times the required call, then it was OK to call.
Here I need to put in $1.58 additional, and the effective stack size is $30, so it is really close.
I've also seen people advocating for "call 15", since in some cases is might make sense to float the flop — for example if your pair gives you an OESD OTF. In the past, I would just outright fold these up to 99.

The problem with the 'call 20' rule for me is that few players these days will willingly play for stacks, and even when (or do) hit your set, it is really hard to get opponents to commit their stacks.

[1] From the original beginner strategy section: "How to play before the flop" there is a section "What does 'call 20' mean"

When you play a small pair like 55 you are speculating on hitting three-of-a-kind on the flop. This only happens approx. 12% of the time, but when it does, you will have a very strong hand that can bring in a fair amount of money. This is why it's profitable to call a raise when holding a small pair, as long as your opponent has enough money to pay you off when you do hit.

With a small pair, you should only call a raise, when your opponent has at least 20x the raise amount in his stack. By the way, this applies to you as well. You must also have 20x the raise amount. You can only win as much money as you have in your stack, so if your opponent has 20x the raise amount but you don't, it really doesn't help you. That is what the term 'Call 20' means.

Originally posted by taavi1337
I mostly fold I think and call 77+. You need to draw the line somewhere, which pairs you call and which not. GL!

My old line was TT+ but lately I've been 4Betting those.

I was then calling with 88-99.

Now, I think I'll take each hand as it comes.

The one thing I won't do, though, is flat-call low pocket pairs (<88) vs a UTG or MP raise. The reason is that this leaves later positions to squeeze, and then you're in poor shape. Depending on who is behind, I might 3Bet 88+ then play the 'call 20' against any re-raise.

OOP it's way harder too have a big pot postflop though (well maybe if he has a set too), I would still ditch it preflop.

* Don't know why I am commenting on a $25nl hand

Villain seems tight on this sample so chance of him having strong hand when we flop set increases as well. I would think call is fine but not playing holdem really these days.

Originally posted by ghaleon
Villain seems tight on this sample so chance of him having strong hand when we flop set increases as well. I would think call is fine but not playing holdem really these days.

That is one reason I was hesitant here. Pocket pairs higher than 44 are a huge part of his range.

Well set over set spots are just setups in holdem 100bb deep so I would not be worrying about that.