Making a living with STT SNGs

I was about to comment on that topic of 3k games per month, but u already mentioned me, so

I like to say that being poker pro is not just grindin and putin massive volume and so on. It is not just your job. It is your life. I dont know about any poker pro who would just grind and thn dont think about it for the rest of his day ♦
So for me it was about finding balance between grind hours, stress level and something I would dexcribe as "how much do i have to deal with poker in my mind goin sleep, bein with family, how much it affects my family and so on" - basically, I wanted to find the balance when I would be able to leave poker aside when I want and concentrate on other things. I believe I found it.
Possible negative is that I dont squeeze myself to max, dont make money I prolly could, but my happiness is higher I believe. If u want numbers, I played only one month 2k sngs, one month 1,5k and 5 months under 1k ♦ Compared to months in 2011 when I was playin over 4k 9man turbos a month...thigs have changed

GL

Originally posted by MilanBurdych
I was about to comment on that topic of 3k games per month, but u already mentioned me, so

I like to say that being poker pro is not just grindin and putin massive volume and so on. It is not just your job. It is your life. I dont know about any poker pro who would just grind and thn dont think about it for the rest of his day ♦
So for me it was about finding balance between grind hours, stress level and something I would dexcribe as "how much do i have to deal with poker in my mind goin sleep, bein with family, how much it affects my family and so on" - basically, I wanted to find the balance when I would be able to leave poker aside when I want and concentrate on other things. I believe I found it.
Possible negative is that I dont squeeze myself to max, dont make money I prolly could, but my happiness is higher I believe. If u want numbers, I played only one month 2k sngs, one month 1,5k and 5 months under 1k ♦ Compared to months in 2011 when I was playin over 4k 9man turbos a month...thigs have changed

GL

I am so glad you are following and responded man
Yes you are absolutely right, it is different when you have family of course. If I ever get to that point (wife, kids, making family a priority) obviously hours will have to decrease and maximize money in poker. Until that point comes I will push myself to new limits and hopefully make enough money in the meanwhile for stress free life in future

Please tell Klompa and other guys who think playing 2k games a month is ok, what can happen from month to month in terms of ROI and how one month you are up 3k , next you are -2k etc... More games = closer to true ROI, less games = ROI varies , quite simple stuff

Even after coaching grinding and working on the game I still think a lot about my friends , girlfriends and goals. I think you can find time for everything just that time management and mental game has to be so good its insane (I am not yet near where I want to be with my mental game and time management can always be better of course).

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77

Originally posted by MilanBurdych
I was about to comment on that topic of 3k games per month, but u already mentioned me, so

I like to say that being poker pro is not just grindin and putin massive volume and so on. It is not just your job. It is your life. I dont know about any poker pro who would just grind and thn dont think about it for the rest of his day ♦
So for me it was about finding balance between grind hours, stress level and something I would dexcribe as "how much do i have to deal with poker in my mind goin sleep, bein with family, how much it affects my family and so on" - basically, I wanted to find the balance when I would be able to leave poker aside when I want and concentrate on other things. I believe I found it.
Possible negative is that I dont squeeze myself to max, dont make money I prolly could, but my happiness is higher I believe. If u want numbers, I played only one month 2k sngs, one month 1,5k and 5 months under 1k ♦ Compared to months in 2011 when I was playin over 4k 9man turbos a month...thigs have changed

GL

I am so glad you are following and responded man
Yes you are absolutely right, it is different when you have family of course. If I ever get to that point (wife, kids, making family a priority) obviously hours will have to decrease and maximize money in poker. Until that point comes I will push myself to new limits and hopefully make enough money in the meanwhile for stress free life in future

Please tell Klompa and other guys who think playing 2k games a month is ok, what can happen from month to month in terms of ROI and how one month you are up 3k , next you are -2k etc... More games = closer to true ROI, less games = ROI varies , quite simple stuff

Even after coaching grinding and working on the game I still think a lot about my friends , girlfriends and goals. I think you can find time for everything just that time management and mental game has to be so good its insane (I am not yet near where I want to be with my mental game and time management can always be better of course).

Yess, totally agree on that point that if u are not REALLY established winning reg with high ROI (real ROI after solid sample) on certain format and limit, thn u should play higher volume thn just 1-2k games month. It can easily crush u to the bottom coz u can run bad for few months easily and thn u ll start question everything, start changin things, stress, bla bla - been there, it sux. So if your ambitions are gettin better, movin up, bein totally full time pro, VOLUME is needed. And I absolutely understand why u go for volume goal not just because it is only possible goal (goal like make 4k dollars month is just bullshit coz of variance ) but also because it gives u certain RB u already calculated and it gives u safety. Money safety and also u r feelin less stressed, relaxed and when u dont feel to play, u just play coz u know it pays off in long run.

Originally posted by MilanBurdych

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77

Originally posted by MilanBurdych
I was about to comment on that topic of 3k games per month, but u already mentioned me, so

I like to say that being poker pro is not just grindin and putin massive volume and so on. It is not just your job. It is your life. I dont know about any poker pro who would just grind and thn dont think about it for the rest of his day ♦
So for me it was about finding balance between grind hours, stress level and something I would dexcribe as "how much do i have to deal with poker in my mind goin sleep, bein with family, how much it affects my family and so on" - basically, I wanted to find the balance when I would be able to leave poker aside when I want and concentrate on other things. I believe I found it.
Possible negative is that I dont squeeze myself to max, dont make money I prolly could, but my happiness is higher I believe. If u want numbers, I played only one month 2k sngs, one month 1,5k and 5 months under 1k ♦ Compared to months in 2011 when I was playin over 4k 9man turbos a month...thigs have changed

GL

I am so glad you are following and responded man
Yes you are absolutely right, it is different when you have family of course. If I ever get to that point (wife, kids, making family a priority) obviously hours will have to decrease and maximize money in poker. Until that point comes I will push myself to new limits and hopefully make enough money in the meanwhile for stress free life in future

Please tell Klompa and other guys who think playing 2k games a month is ok, what can happen from month to month in terms of ROI and how one month you are up 3k , next you are -2k etc... More games = closer to true ROI, less games = ROI varies , quite simple stuff

Even after coaching grinding and working on the game I still think a lot about my friends , girlfriends and goals. I think you can find time for everything just that time management and mental game has to be so good its insane (I am not yet near where I want to be with my mental game and time management can always be better of course).

Yess, totally agree on that point that if u are not REALLY established winning reg with high ROI (real ROI after solid sample) on certain format and limit, thn u should play higher volume thn just 1-2k games month. It can easily crush u to the bottom coz u can run bad for few months easily and thn u ll start question everything, start changin things, stress, bla bla - been there, it sux. So if your ambitions are gettin better, movin up, bein totally full time pro, VOLUME is needed. And I absolutely understand why u go for volume goal not just because it is only possible goal (goal like make 4k dollars month is just bullshit coz of variance ) but also because it gives u certain RB u already calculated and it gives u safety. Money safety and also u r feelin less stressed, relaxed and when u dont feel to play, u just play coz u know it pays off in long run.

Very true man, in other words I treat poker as job and know my minimum hourly I can count on, all the rest that comes on top is just extra. Me like everyone else has things to take care of , today they are far less than in the future so why not push now when I need 400 -500 euro a month instead of pushing in 4-5 years when I will need 1.5k euro a month (2k$) for family and stuff. My goal is to within next 4 - 5 years make at least 200k$ which is very doable in my opinion considering that from January I will play on my own and that is roughly 40k a year which is a bit over 3k a month considering I will keep same work ethic, grinding ability and keep working on the game constantly.

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77

Originally posted by MilanBurdych

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77

Originally posted by MilanBurdych
I was about to comment on that topic of 3k games per month, but u already mentioned me, so

I like to say that being poker pro is not just grindin and putin massive volume and so on. It is not just your job. It is your life. I dont know about any poker pro who would just grind and thn dont think about it for the rest of his day ♦
So for me it was about finding balance between grind hours, stress level and something I would dexcribe as "how much do i have to deal with poker in my mind goin sleep, bein with family, how much it affects my family and so on" - basically, I wanted to find the balance when I would be able to leave poker aside when I want and concentrate on other things. I believe I found it.
Possible negative is that I dont squeeze myself to max, dont make money I prolly could, but my happiness is higher I believe. If u want numbers, I played only one month 2k sngs, one month 1,5k and 5 months under 1k ♦ Compared to months in 2011 when I was playin over 4k 9man turbos a month...thigs have changed

GL

I am so glad you are following and responded man
Yes you are absolutely right, it is different when you have family of course. If I ever get to that point (wife, kids, making family a priority) obviously hours will have to decrease and maximize money in poker. Until that point comes I will push myself to new limits and hopefully make enough money in the meanwhile for stress free life in future

Please tell Klompa and other guys who think playing 2k games a month is ok, what can happen from month to month in terms of ROI and how one month you are up 3k , next you are -2k etc... More games = closer to true ROI, less games = ROI varies , quite simple stuff

Even after coaching grinding and working on the game I still think a lot about my friends , girlfriends and goals. I think you can find time for everything just that time management and mental game has to be so good its insane (I am not yet near where I want to be with my mental game and time management can always be better of course).

Yess, totally agree on that point that if u are not REALLY established winning reg with high ROI (real ROI after solid sample) on certain format and limit, thn u should play higher volume thn just 1-2k games month. It can easily crush u to the bottom coz u can run bad for few months easily and thn u ll start question everything, start changin things, stress, bla bla - been there, it sux. So if your ambitions are gettin better, movin up, bein totally full time pro, VOLUME is needed. And I absolutely understand why u go for volume goal not just because it is only possible goal (goal like make 4k dollars month is just bullshit coz of variance ) but also because it gives u certain RB u already calculated and it gives u safety. Money safety and also u r feelin less stressed, relaxed and when u dont feel to play, u just play coz u know it pays off in long run.

Very true man, in other words I treat poker as job and know my minimum hourly I can count on, all the rest that comes on top is just extra. Me like everyone else has things to take care of , today they are far less than in the future so why not push now when I need 400 -500 euro a month instead of pushing in 4-5 years when I will need 1.5k euro a month (2k$) for family and stuff. My goal is to within next 4 - 5 years make at least 200k$ which is very doable in my opinion considering that from January I will play on my own and that is roughly 40k a year which is a bit over 3k a month considering I will keep same work ethic, grinding ability and keep working on the game constantly.

Hope it works for u, after Black Friday, my wifes pregnancy and so on I learned I cannot plan for this long period ♦ So I rather set myself some short goals and rest is in the skies, it also gives me some kind of peace not to think about future
I am not fan of motivation shit or quotes or sometin, but when I was working for Allianz back in time, there was a poster with quote that just makes sense and fits my nature. I dont remember it precisely but it was sometin like "Care about/deal with only things u can change/affect" - It means a lot for me...Simply when I dont know about someting, I just say "I dont know". If I care about it, I learn about it thn I can speak about it or make my opinion. Politics - I ll never know wats really goin on in this corrupted state, so why bother...poker - variance, card distribution, hittin top ranges, w/e - cant do anytin about it, dont bother, dont care, dont think about it and so on and so on - after realizing that I started sleeping well

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Couldn't seem to get it to post so this link takes you there, does it tell us any thing?

Steve

http://

Ok think I got there.

I did a bit of rounding up and could obviously do this to a broader cross section to give a better idea but this is details on a few players.

Elio we know about
A is another good reg
B is a coach that I know of
C is a good player I know of
Last one is me, as is obvious I don't yet play sng's

I have made a general assumption or 30% rake back, no Tourneys, BOP, leader boards included obviously as well as no live or cash. (not sure how some of these guys would find the time to do anything else any way)

Of course some of the yearly gets diluted when considered over a number of years as players learn games increase volume etc.

I could have looked at higher stakes too, but theses seem to be in the area that we discussing.

It looks like your 3k a month is about right but this is for the top of the pile.

Steve

Originally posted by 177272
Ok think I got there.

I did a bit of rounding up and could obviously do this to a broader cross section to give a better idea but this is details on a few players.

Elio we know about
A is another good reg
B is a coach that I know of
C is a good player I know of
Last one is me, as is obvious I don't yet play sng's

I have made a general assumption or 30% rake back, no Tourneys, BOP, leader boards included obviously as well as no live or cash. (not sure how some of these guys would find the time to do anything else any way)

Of course some of the yearly gets diluted when considered over a number of years as players learn games increase volume etc.

I could have looked at higher stakes too, but theses seem to be in the area that we discussing.

It looks like your 3k a month is about right but this is for the top of the pile.

Steve

Top of the pile..how many ppl in the world are really poker pros?

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
Please tell Klompa and other guys who think playing 2k games a month is ok, what can happen from month to month in terms of ROI and how one month you are up 3k , next you are -2k etc... More games = closer to true ROI, less games = ROI varies , quite simple stuff

No need for patronizing.
I wasn't even saying that it's ok to play 1k, 2k or 10k games in a month. I was just saying that if someone isn't playing 3-4k games a month doesn't mean they're lazy as you said + number of hours in the office(office being the tables) is not the only indicator of how much time one invests into his job. Might be true for your average Joe but it certainly isn't true for a poker player.

Good luck with everything

Originally posted by MilanBurdych

Top of the pile..how many ppl in the world are really poker pros?

+1

Originally posted by klompa

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
Please tell Klompa and other guys who think playing 2k games a month is ok, what can happen from month to month in terms of ROI and how one month you are up 3k , next you are -2k etc... More games = closer to true ROI, less games = ROI varies , quite simple stuff

No need for patronizing.
I wasn't even saying that it's ok to play 1k, 2k or 10k games in a month. I was just saying that if someone isn't playing 3-4k games a month doesn't mean they're lazy as you said + number of hours in the office(office being the tables) is not the only indicator of how much time one invests into his job. Might be true for your average Joe but it certainly isn't true for a poker player.

Good luck with everything

It may seem like patronizing but trust me when I say I mean well to you and all the others I play with/against. My point was that too many people will find excuses not to grind enough, some can say that they are working off the table on their game, some will say other things but my point is if you choose poker as a may to make a steady living there shouldn't be any excuse not to play 3k games + a month. After all, if you are sure about your ability and your hourly, wouldn't it benefit you more to play as many games as possible to maximize your hourly and earning ?
I understand Milan who has family kids which becomes priority in life, but for us single guys or in some relationships what not there shouldn't be excuse to grind + work on the game at least 150 hours a month (minimum) and I can count on fingers on one hand how many people I know personally that do this. Me personally with grinding, working on the game, coaching, I get very close to 250 hours a month of poker but I choose this as living and I like doing this a lot. I am not saying you should play 200 hours a month, its everybody's choice to choose their own way, I am just saying that not grinding 5 hours a day on average, where day has 24 hours is a big joke to me and frankly it should insult intelligence to any person that makes a living and treats poker as a job on a planet. Nothing against you Klompa just saying what I mean as always.

Originally posted by 177272
Ok think I got there.

I did a bit of rounding up and could obviously do this to a broader cross section to give a better idea but this is details on a few players.

Elio we know about
A is another good reg
B is a coach that I know of
C is a good player I know of
Last one is me, as is obvious I don't yet play sng's

I have made a general assumption or 30% rake back, no Tourneys, BOP, leader boards included obviously as well as no live or cash. (not sure how some of these guys would find the time to do anything else any way)

Of course some of the yearly gets diluted when considered over a number of years as players learn games increase volume etc.

I could have looked at higher stakes too, but theses seem to be in the area that we discussing.

It looks like your 3k a month is about right but this is for the top of the pile.

Steve

Perhaps you can go to Microgaming and Ipoker, check out 11$/euro limit regs and find out what they have been earning.
Assume that they will have minimum 50% rb (even more with special promotions) and it will come up larger than that.

Also for Klompa some more info to understand things better.

Tim64, Ghaleon, Burdych...
Lets say their hourly for coaching is 30-40$. They get on average 7 students (some have 10, some 5, some less or more doesn't matter). 7 students x 4 weeks of coaching = 28 sessions x 30 = 840$ of variance free money.
This is just very rough estimation of course, some of them will make money through 50/50 split or better/worse deal in the long run, but you see why they can also afford to play lesser games = variance free money.
Just like musician who gigs and records albums also teaches for variance free money, the same thing with poker players , they don't just play they also coach. I assume poker strategy is also paying them for each video they publish , not really sure how that works tbh, but they probably get more money there.

What I am saying is, it is easier for them to play less games, table select, switch formats when they already have established themselves as solid players with strong ROIs and have built a fan base which brings them enough students to relax and live off (if necessary and wanted) just from coaching.

Just taught this was important to mention, after all they don't play 1-2k games because they think its OK, they do it because they can afford to do so obviously

Originally posted by 177272
Hi mate,

I posted this on another Blog, but would ask you the same question. Maybe I should open a thread about it.

What time you grinding today? I have spent HOURSSSSSSSSSS on SS searching winner players ect, and unless I am missing something is seems to be sooooooooooo hard to make money on sng's. Only the very best do well and as we know there are many 100's of 0000 players playing them.

I would welcome a chat on the subject, unless I am missing something it looks
like a grind of the highest order to make a modest profit from them from it, I know some players who repute to make a living from them and I can't see how from their stats. What do you think ?

Steve

Hi all,especially Ivica,:)

I will give my views on this subject.

You can live comfortably 15s playing anywhere in europe, but you have to have an ROI of +5 and play a decent volume sits, now I'm living to play 15s, but I think it had a +5 ROI would be very difficult to live , and will say why?

Well, if you have a high ROI there is less variance in the game, it is very frustrating (and I tell you from my experience) play a lot and do not make money when you need the money for bills, etc..

My advice is that the best is to have money to live at least 6 months without having to touch the roll.

Ps:Sorry for my english,i speak english translate google,:)

Originally posted by ponchua

Originally posted by 177272
Hi mate,

I posted this on another Blog, but would ask you the same question. Maybe I should open a thread about it.

What time you grinding today? I have spent HOURSSSSSSSSSS on SS searching winner players ect, and unless I am missing something is seems to be sooooooooooo hard to make money on sng's. Only the very best do well and as we know there are many 100's of 0000 players playing them.

I would welcome a chat on the subject, unless I am missing something it looks
like a grind of the highest order to make a modest profit from them from it, I know some players who repute to make a living from them and I can't see how from their stats. What do you think ?

Steve

Hi all,especially Ivica,:)

I will give my views on this subject.

You can live comfortably 15s playing anywhere in europe, but you have to have an ROI of +5 and play a decent volume sits, now I'm living to play 15s, but I think it had a +5 ROI would be very difficult to live , and will say why?

Well, if you have a high ROI there is less variance in the game, it is very frustrating (and I tell you from my experience) play a lot and do not make money when you need the money for bills, etc..

My advice is that the best is to have money to live at least 6 months without having to touch the roll.

Ps:Sorry for my english,i speak english translate google,:)

Hey Ponchua welcome!

I had no idea you were poker strategy member
Thanks for responding on the blog, I understood , keep using google translate man.

Tell me more about those satelites that you play - are they easy or difficult, I see they add quite a bit to your overall profit and ROI.

Cheers and see you at the tables

This thread is bringing out some really useful info, and a few surprise posters. Long may it continue.

Doh Friday and I have just been spammed for a Supervisory role at work starting on Tuesday , looks like they have found something to fill all my research/railing time.... or so they think

To play poker as living one should always have nice "buffer" for living expenses (for both expected and unexpected). That will make mental pressure way way smaller. Playing poker, because its fun is much more enjoyable compared to situation where you have to play to get butter on your bread. That will likely keep you more on A game and so on.

Personally I like to mix game formats and buyins quite a lot. In pokerstars 30$+ limits table selection becomes mandatory and wider selection gives more freedom for it. My style has really never been to play just one buyin level. E.g. these days I could play 200$ games from bankroll view, but in reality I am playing games from 15$ to 100$. Smaller swings and nice profit with decent volume.

For low salary/cost countries living with poker is not that big challenge in long run. But living off is not only important factor. One thing to remember with poker is that there will be no adding to retirement moneys. So for longer period one should have some sort of goals and backup plans. E.g. how one will use poker profits? Investment plans? Plans if poker is not an option for some reason after couple years?

Personally I have been quite lazy volume wise. Goal is to hit 300k vpp this year which will be done. Just have to put bigger goal for next year

But yeah for me it has always been easier to play poker with some longer period volume goal in mind.

Morning,

Do you how to filter SS to get say the best 45 man $1.50 players as a leader board? I can get the best say 6 table under $2 leader board, but when you look at those individuals you get a lot of other stuff included which I don't want. I am sure that I am doing something wrong?

Steve

Just did a pretty sick 2 hour session with one of our students showing him some advanced ICM concepts for hypers. I will not go into details here but basically he was missing out on a lot of edge with shoves and calls so I am pretty sure he will crush them even more now on Microgaming.
Go go go Petar!

About to play 1st session of the day!