Originally posted by Gentari
* it is amazing how I can convince myself the EV line is rubbish when I run good and look to it for consolation when I am running bad. Perhaps it's all a myth and I should ignore it totally
Hey Gentari --
good to meet another zimmer!
I'm pretty much convinced that the EV line serves no useful purpose other than as you describe -- consolation when you run bad.
Peace,
--VS
^^
I beg to differ. 
With a big enough sample and assuming it functions accurately (not the case atm on all sites) you should expect EV line to catch up with actual winnings line. That may or not be of any psycological value (because it depends on your outlook) but I think that the EV can provide a decent indication of a player's ability when they happen to be running a long way above/below EV.
Originally posted by Tim64
^^I beg to differ.
If I thought the EV calculation was even 90% accurate then I think I could be 'happy' with it. My issue is that I have run below ev all my poker career, until I recently changed my game style to a less NITTY version and suddenly I am above EV (tiny sample blah blah) but you see my point.
For me I was waiting for the EV to come my way, I needed to change my game, not hope ev would help me out.
Can you spot the point at which I changed my game?
It is also important to note the Mental Game work I have done. In the past, had I run below ev, I would have got annoyed and probbly played poorly resulting in less optimal plays.
The 100 game graph above is too small a sample to prove much. To counter your 2.5k game sample on skype, here is a bigger sample:
Agreed that EV line can be a measure of ability. My sample as you saw, is of a lovely down turn (green line) with an even lower EV line, hence the idea I was losing and covering the issues with an EV line that was far better, although still bad, than my green line.
The whole idea that the EV line can be used as a crutch for players I stand by. I was sitting waiting for the profit to go match the EV line, when infact the play was never going to give me more than a breakeven P & L, which when added to RakeBack would have been ok for some.
Since this minor 'light bulb' moment my focus has improved and I decided to admit I was not a very good player.
My goal is to beat the games, not my EV Line. I intend on climbing the limits until I reach a point that I am satisfied with poker as a cash generator. I don't need millions, I don't need fame, I don't need anything else than satisfaction that my love of poker has resulted in something good for me (Nissan GTR would be acceptable ).
I will do my full week update later on, need to play another game to make at least 1 target
BR: £84.75
[ ] BRM: 50 BI for next level
[x] Volume: >50 6max SNGs
[x] Mental Game: Review if graded a session below 'A'
[ ] Hand Review: Post min 1 hand in eval forum each day
[x] Training: Read/Watch 1 item of training material daily
[-] Training: >100 hands in ICM Trainer
Played: 51
1st: 15
2nd: 14
Lost: 22
ROI: 44.1%
EV ROI: 20.3%
Things like $/hour are pretty meaningless as HEM is unable to handle dual currencies and I have to run both $ & £ games as they are loading so slow.
I am still waiting for CS to credit the 2 games I couldn't play due to the site outage, but as yet I have not received it, even though CS said this evening it would be done within an hour... it hasn't yet.
Overall I am very happy with my week although my goals are far from complete. I managed the volume goal even though I have been very busy helping with the kids etc and feeling tired in the evening. I have been spending a lot of time looking at PS materials and working through hand examples in SNGWiz and Holdem Resources. I ran nearly 90 hands through the ICM Trainer (goal fail) and have not posted enough hands in the evaluation forum.
I feel as if the hands I am coming up against are easy to review with Wiz or NASH Calcs as most are push/fold issues. I tend to get confused at times with other hands and they are the ones I look to the eval forum for advice, but they happen far less often. Perhaps if I was playing the standard speed games there would be more post flop spots to look into.
Mental Game
Only 2 occasions where I have felt an issue this week with tilt. I had a couple of poor runs where it seemed nothing was going my way, AK v AQ, KK v QJ, correct ICM shoves finding the top end of villains range etc etc, all pretty standard stuff but when you get bubbled 3 in a row when pre flop fav the feeling of dread builds up sometimes. I did manage to spot the issue and resolve it by finishing the tables I was playing and stop for a while.
In all other games I felt very happy with how I was feeling and played a good focussed session for the most part. I am looking at ways of increasing focus and some of the psychological stuff on PS is very interesting.
Rake is something I was looking at earlier and 20% on these games is a bit mad, but it seems micro rake on all sites is a bit steep, I need to get to the $5+ games where 10% rake would be great. I hope it isn't too long before I get there.
Overall $55+ up at Poker770 and enjoying my poker, can't grumble at that ♠_love:
I like the way you rate your mental game after each session.
I did that too for a while in my blog, but I have not had a particularly tilty session for some time.
Nice progress mate, glad to see you running well and playing well, im sure you will be on $5 limit not too far in the future
Also good to see you meeting the volume targets 
Keep up the good work ♠_cool:
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
I like the way you rate your mental game after each session.I did that too for a while in my blog, but I have not had a particularly tilty session for some time.
I have really found it useful. To some extent it is more important to me than the game as I play to a decent standard and as such my minset was costing me far more than the odd mistake in game.
Sounds a bit pretentious, but hey that's where I am at
Originally posted by Rick21
Nice progress mate, glad to see you running well and playing well, im sure you will be on $5 limit not too far in the futureAlso good to see you meeting the volume targets
Keep up the good work ♠_cool:
Thanks Rick,
I have actually decided to jump straight to the $5.50 games as I feel the rake benefits should cover for the initial skill gap.
$1.20 games are a full 20% rake as are the $2.40s
The $5.50 games and higher are 10% rake so my theory was use the money I have in the BR on Poker770 (inc the £50 deposit I made) and focus on playing the $5s. I am slightly under rolled for them (50 BI = $250 and I have ~£84 which is ~$135) but I can if required deposit more.
Also the points towards the VIP levels and the Bpnus I am working off should cover a lot.
BR: £84.27
As you can see from the post above I have skipped some levels and gone to the $5.50s
The aim now is to put in some volume and see where I can go. Maintain GOLD Status on PS and clear some bonus $s (easier with each game raking $0.50 instead of $0.20 even though the % is half)
Last night I played 12 $3.50s and Stars for a profit, had another coaching session and then finished off playing a set of 4 $5.50 Turbo 6max on Poker770.
I managed 3, 3, 2, 2 which was unfortunate for a small loss but in 1 bubble spot I was the wrong side of a 60/40 and in both 2nds I was a small fav in the hands I got KO'd with.
Mental Game
I felt a little passive in the $5s so need to resolve that. There is no great skill difference but for some reason I was a little tentative in some spots.
The actual play was unaffected by beats (my main tilt issue) so I was very happy with the sessions as played.
£68.71
Awful day from a profit standpoint, but I feel I played pretty well. The $5.50 games seem to have 3 mega spewey fish in and 3 decent players. Now that may sound great, but in reality perhaps it isn't.
I have not got a sample worth looking at but trying to isolate with a 4x raise was getting called by 2+ players almost every time. I had to NIT up and look for spots but ran cold. I found the traffic slow too so played quite a few games on Party and Stars. Daily total was 47 games and a loss of nearly $50 !!!
RIGGED !!!!
I just ran bad and had the shitty end of the deck in so many shove spots it was unreal.
Mental Game
Worst day for about a month for my mindset. I found myself predicting the next bad beat which is something I used to do, say I shoved AQ and got called by KJs then obviously the flush was going to hit on the river and boom, there it was.
I hate it when I feel like that, it is horrible. Just part of the game I suppose. I went off and composed myself and returned for more punishment, having checked my early games and found I was pretty unlucky in some spots, like clear ICM shoves were just getting looked up by better hands.
I then had another session and managed to play pretty well on Stars actually making a small profit. Still loads of coolers and poor set ups. I will review those games again tomorrow. I finally played a small session on Party and got slapped there too (EV ROI 16.4% actual ROI -42.7%). 99 v Q7o; JJ v K5o; KJs v T7s; AQs v ATs; 66 v Q9o... the list goes on
Sucks that it's the day I try put in some volume at a higher level, but shit happens and we move on, tomorrow is another day and lets hope the fish are not getting their luckboxes filled by me 
Good Luck
Now I am on a big downer, my mindset is shot again !!!
I have taken a stab at the higher buy in and this is the result...
So I am a fish who does ok at the micro level but take a step out and boom - I get it handed to me !!!!
BUT
In BIs it isn't too bad at all...
I am going back to $1 games for now though, I need to rebuild my confidence and get back in the zone before my next challenge on the next few levels
Originally posted by MisClick
Graph still looking good
GL with the grinding!
U2, I appreciate the support I get here
Why does it go in streaks like that?
On one day, everyone folds to your raise, and you make a small profit.
On another, everyone calls with worse, and you make a better profit.
On yet another you just hit everything, and run insanely well.
And of course, each has its reverse when you can't win with anything.
Do you ever have a day that is just an even mix if everything?
Even if you did, would you notice?
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Why does it go in streaks like that?On one day, everyone folds to your raise, and you make a small profit.
On another, everyone calls with worse, and you make a better profit.
On yet another you just hit everything, and run insanely well.
And of course, each has its reverse when you can't win with anything.Do you ever have a day that is just an even mix if everything?
Even if you did, would you notice?
Its impossible for anyone to run exactly the same every day consistently, even if they were playing 400-500 SNG per day, break-even stretches or even downswings have been known to run for 1000+ games in some cases, I believe Boku87 had around a 1500 breakeven stretch when he was completing his $5 to $100,000 challenge (I think this happened half way through the challenge)
Glad to see you have this in control though because the fact you have moved back down to $1 tourneys is an achievement in itself, shows self control and discipline
Good luck at the tables bud 
Gentari,
you asked for the above graph in BI. Here it is:
40 BI above ev at the end of the graph, but close enough to provide some comfort.
BI is indeed a better way to see your d/swing. Very common to have 20 BI ev downswings so don't get too disillusioned. This is why BRM is so important - b/c sometimes perfect play can still lead to day after day of losses.
In above graph, just after game 1000 is a 20BI EV downswing. And at game 1900 is 50 BI downswing (while EV was going steadily up). If you think of this happening at the $5s, it's the equivalent of a $100 EV d/sw and at $250 actual respectively.
It's useful to have this in mind because making headway in SnGs only happens with acceptance of this 'inbuilt ugliness' and perseverence in spite of it.
I don't mind admitting that first time round, that 50 BI downswing basically made me give up sngs for 1+ years when the bigger picture shows that I should have just gritted my teeth and pushed on through.
GL!
