Originally posted by Kyyberi
You shouldn't play in games where one stack is 10% of your money.
For me that is the cutoff.
So for NL 2 I would need a minimum of $20.
For PLO, though I would want double that — and even more.
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So let's say I want to play NL2 and (soon) I have $20 to spend on that; the problem is, it is tough to get better in NLHE when playing only lower than NL2. Another coaching site recommends 1000 to 2000 BI BRM for professional poker; at the moment I have like 260 BI for NL2; but I am also not professional again, by this I mean, I don't rely on poker winnings but my main income comes from elsewhere.
The poker challenge gives me a lot of motivation, but yes, I have been playing on too high stakes according to many sources. There is more money arriving soon in next month, so I definitely want to reduce the risk of current 5,7% of money in play to the recommended <1% of money in play. By money in play I mean the % of money on poker sites of all money I have.
I have used even 90% and 95% of money in play (in 2013); but then I was inside really strong and confident. Now I feel it is good and much better to go towards the <1% money in play.
Originally posted by taavi1337
The poker challenge gives me a lot of motivation, but yes, I have been playing on too high stakes according to many sources. There is more money arriving soon in next month, so I definitely want to reduce the risk of current 5,7% of money in play to the recommended <1% of money in play. By money in play I mean the % of money on poker sites of all money I have.I have used even 90% and 95% of money in play (in 2013); but then I was inside really strong and confident. Now I feel it is good and much better to go towards the <1% money in play.
It is really important to be comfortable with the risk. Doyle Brunson said in one of his books, "You must want to win, but not care if you lose".
Another thing that worked for me is that when I put money in a poker room, I considered that I had already spent it.
Yes not care to lose and trying to win is very important in this game. we better not pay too much attention to the negative side of it.
Bankroll and net wealth are different things. Whatever the bankroll is, there should be bankroll management. There are no right or wrong ways to do it, but I think that BRM should meet the needs. It can be very aggressive (like $20 bankroll for NL2) or very conservative (1000 buyins). The question we should be asking is "why do I have BRM and what I am using it for?". There are also few key factors to consider:
- Is it static (we can't deposit more if needed) or dynamic (we can deposit more if needed)?
- Is the goal to get up in stakes and increase the bankroll aggressively, or is the goal to prevent us from losing it all?
- How do we react if we lose significant portion of our bankroll? If losing 30% of our bankroll affects our game mentally, we should have a lot bigger bankroll in terms of buyins.
- There is mathematical approach (risk of ruin, based on variance of the game) and mental approach (how much does losing x% of bankroll affect). Mathematical part can be calculated, but the mental part has to be estimated. And quite often players over estimate their mental capability.
Some of us like to have huge bankroll where normal swings are not really affecting it. Some of us like to do aggressive "get up in stakes" projects. And some like to deposit few dollars, play with them until there's enough profit to withdraw them or lose it all. And then repeat it again. And all of those are equally right or wrong.
Originally posted by Kyyberi
And quite often players over estimate their mental capability.
Yes, I can confirm, you can go one month, two months with sub-zero (barely money for food); but if you reach 5 months, you want like luxury and more food again. If you haven't tried sub-zero, you think like: "I can do sub-zero for 2 years if necessary"; but you can't actually, there's like mental tension after few months and you start to question the challenge.
Swingaments continue. Yesterday in Primetime live stream I run few buyins under EV, there were some nasty beats. Today the session swinged again, but finally it swung upwards.
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With time, even the biggest tides start to turn:
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Casual +13bin session.
Here is hero call of the day:
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Preflop aggro player opens, I call and we go multiway to the flop, which is checked through. He bets turn, I call. I was very sure that DaSabel doesn't have A or J, as he would have cbet those every single time. He did not have slow play or trap in his playbook, just aggression and especially if people showed weakness by checking or just calling. Third player calls too, which worried me a bit.
On the river he pots, which was very expected. My plan was to call all non-spade rivers and T was definitely safe enough with KK blockers to straight. Still, the third player was my concern as he might hero call here with AQ type of hand. Luckily he folded and aggro showed Q high.
nAaaaand back to some swingaments!
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There was an aggro who never folded anything. Sometimes he got few hundred bb stack, but in the end he lost 22 buyins in and hour. Reminder that they don't always run so good...
Well, he opened almost every hand, and if he had anything on the flop (pair, gutshot, backdoors, overcards...) he potted. If we saw turn, he potted and then stacked off. The key is to shove wide value range and embrace the variance. The reason that aggression often works, is that most players adjust by calling with everything pre, and then calling with wide range on the flop. But once he pots the turn and it's about folding or playing for stacks, people fold unless they have really strong hand. That's the worst way to adjust against maniac.
But once hero starts to stack off with wider range, maniac's weaker range has decent equity and we get a lot of 80-20 or 70-30 flips. Once variance decides to give bollocks, it's quite painfull.
Mr. Optimistic of the day:
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Flop is 4way and get the Quads. Which usually sucks, as it's hard to get good value. Checked through, and on the turn we need to start to build up the pot, and 7d is nice as it opens a lot of stuff and might give someone a straight. But before I can bet, opponent leads out. There is caller before me, so I make a raise. Both call. On the river he shoves, I call and expect to see TT. But he decided to bet-CALL 4way on turn with effectively nothing, just to hit 2 outer boat on the river and still lose.
Would be nice to ask him, what did he think I had when I raised turn against lead and caller?
And goodbeat of the day:
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MP: 105.2 BB (VPIP: 53.57, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 28)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 61.84, PFR: 49.59, 3Bet Preflop: 30.77, Hands: 1,234)
BTN: 113.8 BB (VPIP: 37.31, PFR: 22.08, 3Bet Preflop: 4.52, Hands: 397)
SB: 93.6 BB (VPIP: 86.11, PFR: 2.78, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
Hero (BB): 464.2 BB
UTG: 24.2 BB (VPIP: 60.61, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 66)
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has T♥ 7♥ K♦ K♥
fold, fold, CO raises to 3.4 BB, fold, SB calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 13.6 BB, CO raises to 44.2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 136 BB, CO calls 55.8 BB
Flop: (203.4 BB, 2 players) T♦ 2♣ T♣
Turn: (203.4 BB, 2 players) 8♠
River: (203.4 BB, 2 players) 6♣
Players agreed to run it twice.
Flop #2: (203.4 BB, 2 players) A♥ 3♠ 9♠
Turn #2: (203.4 BB, 2 players) A♠
River #2: (203.4 BB, 2 players) 5♦
CO shows 2♦ J♥ 7♣ 6♠ (Two Pair, Tens and Sixes)
Board #1 (Pre 28%, Flop 4%, Turn 10%)
(One Pair, Aces)
Board #2 (Pre 25%, Flop 10%, Turn 0%)
Hero shows T♥ 7♥ K♦ K♥ (Three of a Kind, Tens)
Board #1 (Pre 72%, Flop 96%, Turn 90%)
(Two Pair, Aces and Kings)
Board #2 (Pre 75%, Flop 90%, Turn 100%)
Hero wins 98.4 BB
Hero wins 98.4 BB
Opponent is a weird player. He definitely knows how to play PLO, but plays it very aggressively most of the times. Somehow it seems to work, as he is making profit even in EV against the pool. But today he was a bit earlier in the evening just splashing chips on the tables for 15min or so. Saturday evening, and it seemed to be that he was drinking and just played really short session. Might be just before leaving to bar or to something else. But 2 hours later (this hand) he came back, and this was one of the first hands from him. My read was that if he was drunk and gambling 2 hours ago, he hasn't gone for tighter approach during those 2 hours for sure. So his 4bet range is even wider than usually. And as we can see, he was actually gambling with almost any 4 cards. And the sickest thing is that my hand held both runs!
Although at the same time on another table we got it in on the flop and he had 2 outs. Managed to hit one of those.
Weirdness of the day:
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Playing HU with a good customer, we are about 165bb deep. He opens, I call. On the flop he bets, I call and everything is just normal poker. On the turn I hit the nuts and cehck-raise. He decides to re-raise and as he is mostly quite passive I choose the tricky route and just call. Idea is to donk pot if board pairs or flushes, to generate at least some FE. River is a blank, and I check. No reason to bet cos if he also has the nuts the money goes in no matter what I do. But as the chance of him having something else is greater than 0% (although I estimated it close to 0, lol) by checking there is at least a tiny room for him to bluff. He bets big, I went just "meh..." and shoved. He snap called the remaining stack and showed AA. And I was left speechless.
I suppose he got tired and decided that this is his make it or break it hand. Getting mentally attached to Aces. Not sure why he decided to re-raise it on the turn, maybe he thought he had the flush draw (red/black deck?). Or he just grew pair of giant sacks and went for wild bluff.
November is going to be a month without PLO Primetime. There are cash game Holdem streams going on every day, so I will host my Primetime after that in early December. And then maybe another one later in December.
Originally posted by Kyyberi
Weirdness of the day:Spoiler
Playing HU with a good customer, we are about 165bb deep. He opens, I call. On the flop he bets, I call and everything is just normal poker. On the turn I hit the nuts and cehck-raise. He decides to re-raise and as he is mostly quite passive I choose the tricky route and just call. Idea is to donk pot if board pairs or flushes, to generate at least some FE. River is a blank, and I check. No reason to bet cos if he also has the nuts the money goes in no matter what I do. But as the chance of him having something else is greater than 0% (although I estimated it close to 0, lol) by checking there is at least a tiny room for him to bluff. He bets big, I went just "meh..." and shoved. He snap called the remaining stack and showed AA. And I was left speechless.
I suppose he got tired and decided that this is his make it or break it hand. Getting mentally attached to Aces. Not sure why he decided to re-raise it on the turn, maybe he thought he had the flush draw (red/black deck?). Or he just grew pair of giant sacks and went for wild bluff.
Free and useful education, thanks! They sometimes just spewbluff some % of the time, don't they?
Just gotta love Fridays! I was selecting "sit out on next Big Blind" to close the session, when this happened:
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Hero (CO): 206.2 BB
BTN: 276.6 BB (VPIP: 84.84, PFR: 12.86, 3Bet Preflop: 2.62, Hands: 656)
SB: 117.8 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 100.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 1)
BB: 43.6 BB (VPIP: 31.27, PFR: 1.74, 3Bet Preflop: 0.47, Hands: 2,251)
UTG: 188.2 BB (VPIP: 74.63, PFR: 13.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 67)
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K♦ 9♦ J♠ K♠
UTG calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4.4 BB, BTN calls 4.4 BB, SB raises to 19.6 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 65.2 BB, BTN calls 60.8 BB, SB raises to 117.8 BB, Hero raises to 206.2 BB, BTN calls 141 BB
SB has played only one hand, where he 3bet some junk. Even without that read, when someone sits in, 3bets first 2 hands, there is reasonable chance that they are gambling. KKJ9ds is ahead of that range and has good equite versus unfortunate AA. And we are deep with BTN who has been playing his normal call-happy passive PLO, spiced with some HUGE river bluffs. Probably drunk. So I 4bet, SB wants to play for stacks and I shove it. Their hands were a bit surprising, expecially BTN who casually wanted to gamble with dry Jacks.
Flop: (532.2 BB, 3 players) T♦ 3♠ 2♥
Turn: (532.2 BB, 3 players) 3♦
River: (532.2 BB, 3 players) 9♣
Hero shows K♦ 9♦ J♠ K♠ (Two Pair, Kings and Threes)
Main Pot [355.4 BB]: (Pre 50%, Flop 56%, Turn 78%)
Side Pot#1 [176.8 BB]: (Pre 74%, Flop 86%, Turn 97%)
BTN shows J♥ 6♥ J♦ Q♣ (Two Pair, Jacks and Threes)
Main Pot [355.4 BB]: (Pre 23%, Flop 13%, Turn 3%)
Side Pot#1 [176.8 BB]: (Pre 26%, Flop 14%, Turn 3%)
SB shows 8♠ 8♦ 4♥ A♣ (Two Pair, Eights and Threes)
Main Pot [355.4 BB]: (Pre 29%, Flop 31%, Turn 19%)
Hero wins 514.6 BB
If Friday was good, Saturday wasn't. Got manhandled in the tables by aggros and by calling stations. Aggros were aggro, just hit the flops with trash in 3bet/4bet pots. And passives called a lot and hit a lot. First day in my life where I got beat three times by a straight flush while holding the practical nuts. And of course I took one table from higher stakes and got coolered on that one for few buyins.
Friday's profits were lost today, as I also run under EV a lot. Roller coaster, just not that enjoyable.
It's strange how randomness often seems very non-random. Yesterday I won pretty much against all the other players, except one. Aggro Finnish player, who plays about 80% of times decent PLO. And that 20% is brainfarting, like cold 4betting A883, or shoving preflop 7722. Also whenever someone 3bets or 4bets, he has the urge to cold call with almost any hand. Yesterday he once again multitables, and it all started with HU with me. First hand, I flop the nut straight, turn is blank and river I have 2nd nut straight, I shove and he binked a gutshot on the river.
Few minutes later I had lost couple deep pots where he just hits his hands in 4bet pots. Example, 200bb deep he 4bets QQ32r, and hits the top set. Cold calls my 4 bet with 9722, hits the set etc. And on top of that he rivers straight flush versus my nut flush 150bb deep. 10 minutes of bad beats and coolers versus that one player on all tables, and lost all my deep stacks. Graph was ugly, 900 hands of steady grinding up and then huge vertical drop for about 10 buyins. He also did that same stuff on other players, winning couple of big multiway pots for over 500bb each while having 4-10% equity when money went in.
These kinds of things makes you question the fairness of the games, as our brains can't handle when randomness seems very non-random. Like getting 10 times black in roulette, or dealer making 3 blackjacks in a row. Most of the times this players joins all tables, loses stacks in few minutes and leaves. Yesterday he had very unpropable run. But in the long run his strategy is not +EV.
I'm going through a learning process which focuses on keeping a clear mind and logical thinking in these type of spots, the ideal scenario is that I do not scream "again!!" when I don't hit my flushdraw on turn, but clearly and calmly think about a wise strategy, taking into account the behaviour of the opponent, applying logic.