Oh Sweet Irony...
It is fitting that my post yesterday was about hand review... I'll be doing a lot of it tonight. My session yesterday saw me down 3+ buy-ins. I felt like I was playing well, so it will be interesting to see what a review turns up...
Worst case, I find something - best case, I find something. 
Wish me luck.
Find Something I Did...
Wow, this is why we do hand reviews... what I found is that I should really be down about 4.5 buy-ins... I got lucky playing a hand I had no business playing and that saved me about a buy-in.
My post-flop game plan still needs a lot of work. my 2 biggest leaks were:
:diamond:I overplayed some hands with medium strength holdings - i.e. Top pair with medium kicker, flush on a possible full-house board, etc...
:diamond:Betting the river when I could only expect to be called by better.
Here's one particularly horrible hand:
PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3
Hero (BB): $9.85 (98.5 bb)
UTG: $26.80 (268 bb)
CO: $10.00 (100 bb)
BTN: $10.00 (100 bb)
SB: $11.52 (115.2 bb)
SB posts $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has A♦: 5♦:
2 folds, BTN raises to $0.30, fold, Hero raises to $0.90, BTN calls $0.60
Flop: ($1.85, 2 players) 2♥: 4♥: J♥:
Hero checks, BTN checks
Turn: ($1.85, 2 players) 3♣:
Hero bets $1.10, BTN raises to $3.90, Hero raises to $8.95 and is all-in, BTN calls $5.05
River: ($19.75, 2 players) T♦:
Results: $19.75 pot ($0.89 rake)
Final Board: 2♥: 4♥: J♥: 3♣: T♦:
Hero shows A♦: 5♦:: (Straight, Five High)
BTN shows ...
My thoughts on the hand:
I think my check on the flop is ok. I don't think villain is going to give me much credit for hitting this flop given my 3-bet range pre-flop. I might be hitting it about 20% of the time (I didn't run the math, just a guess). On the other hand, it's not a flop villain will want to play often either and so maybe a c-bet to try and take it down is ok.
As played - On the turn, I have to be honest here and say that I didn't really think of my gameplan that much. Otherwise I wouldn't have gotten in the trouble I did.
Looking at it now, here's my line of thought:
Betting out is ok.
:diamond:I could win the pot right away if villain folds or I could get value from villain's draws, pairs and sets.
:diamond:I wonder if a pot-size bet for protection against the flush and higher straight draws would be a better option though?
:diamond:If I get raised, I need to fold.
Checking is an option.
:diamond:check-fold - too weak
:diamond:check-raise - builds pot too big. I have to fold to a 4-bet, and if villain just calls, then I have to check-fold a decent hand on the river...
:diamond:check-call - the only checking option - keeps the pot size more in-line with my holdings.
What are your thoughts?
Do you agree with my thoughts on each bet and check option above?
How would you play this hand?
Hi,
i guess first we have to talk about preflop.
What is your intention with your 3bet?
(nothing wrong with that, nur WHY are you betting?
Originally posted by Ramble
Wow, this is why we do hand reviews... what I found is that I should really be down about 4.5 buy-ins... I got lucky playing a hand I had no business playing and that saved me about a buy-in.
I think that "no business playing" is overstating -- A5s is fine vs a BTN raise. 3Bet may be a bit much unless it is in your 3Bet/Fold bluffing range -- and it is too strong for that I think.
I will flat this all day long though.
Lucky turn.
I think I would play the same, since opponent likely doesn't have the made flush, but likely does have a decent-ish flush draw, and at least top pair, and overpair or even a set that won't be folding.
and if he does have us beat -- oh well.
Originally posted by Talisker74
Hi,
i guess first we have to talk about preflop.
What is your intention with your 3bet?
(nothing wrong with that, nur WHY are you betting?
Thanks for the question.
With my pre-flop 3bet, I'm hoping to take the pot down right there and not play out of position.
If I get called though, I'm ok with it. My hand stands up well to his range, probably marginally ahead. I'm also likely to connect with the flop in some way about 30% of the time.
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Originally posted by Ramble
I got lucky playing a hand I had no business playing and that saved me about a buy-in.I think that "no business playing" is overstating -- A5s is fine vs a BTN raise.
Sorry, I can see how this would be a logical conclusion... I wasn't talking about the A5s hand in that case, I was talking about a Q7s hand I had raised from too early a position, but flopped well and made a flush by the river for a good pot. (And an A8 hand as well, but that didn't make me much $$$).
Breaking Even at NL10...
Only 2000 hands in and am relatively break-even at NL10 so far. I am confident I can beat this limit but it is highlighting weak areas in my game.
For now, I've made a small adjustment to tighten up my ranges a bit pre-flop so that when I get involved in a hand, my post-flop lines aren't being complicated further by playing marginal hands that I shouldn't be. I'm hoping this let's me start off in a bit more solid position. Since the adjustment, things have been improving and I'm a bit clearer on my game plan post-flop.
@Talisker74 - if you read this, would love your follow up on hand analysis above.
That goes for anyone here.
Originally posted by Ramble
Only 2000 hands in and am relatively break-even at NL10 so far. I am confident I can beat this limit but it is highlighting weak areas in my game.For now, I've made a small adjustment to tighten up my ranges a bit pre-flop so that when I get involved in a hand, my post-flop lines aren't being complicated further by playing marginal hands that I shouldn't be. I'm hoping this let's me start off in a bit more solid position. Since the adjustment, things have been improving and I'm a bit clearer on my game plan post-flop.
I kinda went the other way (different game though -- full ring PLO8), in that I get involved in more pots pre-flop (especially if I can get in with good odds) and make my decision to continue based on what comes on the flop:
Criteria:
A made hand of come sort. Unless already the nuts, a re-draw may be required.
I have draws in more than one category. (eg low draw, straight draw, flush draw)
Drawing to the nuts in at least one category
I haven't played enough hold'em recently (except in tournaments) to know if that makes any sense in that game.
Obviously, for those criteria to be met, the starting hand has to fit.
How many times in these forums have people complained "How could he play 5♦:4♦:!?!" when the flop was 5♥:5♠:5♣:
Cheers,
VS
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
I kinda went the other way (different game though -- full ring PLO8), in that I get involved in more pots pre-flop (especially if I can get in with good odds) and make my decision to continue based on what comes on the flop:
I re-evaluate my hand on each street, but I wanted to give myself a better chance of hitting well when I do hit something (less often). I was getting myself into too many marginal spots that I haven't figured out how to not lose money at yet (other than not getting in those spots to begin with.)
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
How many times in these forums have people complained "How could he play 5♦:4♦:!?!" when the flop was 5♥:5♠:5♣:
5♦:4♦: is still definitely in my range though...From my session this evening... Not quite the flop you describe, but when it hit, I had to laugh at the timeliness of it given your post.
PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3
SB: $5.00 (100 bb)
BB: $8.91 (178.2 bb)
UTG: $5.00 (100 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.83 (116.6 bb)
BTN: $7.28 (145.6 bb)
SB posts $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has 4♦: 5♦:
fold, Hero raises to $0.12, BTN calls $0.12, fold, BB calls $0.07
Flop: ($0.38, 3 players) 4♠: 4♣: J♥:
BB checks, Hero bets $0.23, BTN calls $0.23, fold
Turn: ($0.84, 2 players) K♥:
Hero bets $0.53, BTN calls $0.53
River: ($1.90, 2 players) 6♥:
Hero bets $1.18, BTN calls $1.18
Results: $4.26 pot ($0.18 rake)
Final Board: 4♠: 4♣: J♥: K♥: 6♥:
Hero shows 4♦: 5♦:: (Three of a Kind, Fours)
(Pre 40%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
BTN mucks A♦: J♣:: (Two Pair, Jacks and Fours)
(Pre 60%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins $4.08
I wasn't 100% sure about the River bet... I was confident villain couldn't have a full-house , but thought maybe a backdoor flush could have gotten there. A check-call line seems like I'd be giving up value too often, so I was wondering about my river-bet sizing... any thoughts?
Originally posted by Ramble
I wasn't 100% sure about the River bet... I was confident villain couldn't have a full-house , but thought maybe a backdoor flush could have gotten there. A check-call line seems like I'd be giving up value too often, so I was wondering about my river-bet sizing... any thoughts?
Well played.
Check/call would most likely not need the call part, since opponent will check back almost anything that isn't a flush.
When you bet this river, what do you do if he shoves?
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
When you bet this river, what do you do if he shoves?
If I estimated my pot odds right, villain needs to be bluff-shoving this more than a third of the time for me to call profitably. As played, I don't see villain bluffing me that often, so I'd have to fold it and type "nh" in the chat window.
Good timing PokerStrategy.com - Stack to Pot Ratio
In my time playing NL10, I've been pretty consistently winning a bunch of smaller pots, building a nice stack, and then losing it in a giant pot by overplaying a marginal hand. (down 4 buy-ins at NL10, about 2000+ hands). In review, it's becoming clearer to me that I'm not paying enough attention to the stack-to-pot ratio and valuing my hands appropriately.
As a former SnG player who relied heavily on my understanding of ICM (not applicable to cash) to assess situations based on stack sizes, I find it funny that this (somewhat/sort-of/wibbly-wobbly) similar concept is an area that I'm struggling with.
It's fitting that as I'm discovering this HUGE leak in my game, that PokerStrategy.com publishes their "Poker Basics" article about it: https://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/content/Poker-Basics-Stack-to-Pot-Ratio_116574/
It never hurts to be reminded of the basics. A solid house needs a good foundation.
I played much better last session overall.
I was much more conscious of the relative strength of my hands on every street and thinking about opponents range. I managed my pot control accordingly in most cases, and was more willing to fold when I needed to.
Curious about your thoughts on this hand?
PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3
BB: $9.56 (95.6 bb)
UTG: $11.39 (113.9 bb)
Hero (CO): $10.00 (100 bb)
BTN: $28.61 (286.1 bb)
SB: $12.70 (127 bb)
SB posts $0.05, BB posts $0.10
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has J♣: K♣:
fold, Hero raises to $0.25, BTN calls $0.25, 2 folds
Flop: ($0.65, 2 players) K♥: Q♦: 8♠:
Hero bets $0.40, BTN calls $0.40
Turn: ($1.45, 2 players) A♣:
Hero?
It's a pretty typical situation, just looking to see what your game plan is for the rest of the hand?
Originally posted by Ramble
It's a pretty typical situation, just looking to see what your game plan is for the rest of the hand?
You pick up equity -- but just a gutshot, and the card you need is the key card -- the T
You're blocking JT though.
With A, K & Q on board now, you might fold out smaller pairs (probably TT, JJ continue)
So for me (Disclaimer: I am NOT a coach!) I would bet this turn just a bit less than half pot, but get ready to fold to serious aggression.
Cheers,
VS
Originally posted by Ramble
Originally posted by Talisker74
Hi,
i guess first we have to talk about preflop.
What is your intention with your 3bet?
(nothing wrong with that, nur WHY are you betting?Thanks for the question.
With my pre-flop 3bet, I'm hoping to take the pot down right there and not play out of position.
If I get called though, I'm ok with it. My hand stands up well to his range, probably marginally ahead. I'm also likely to connect with the flop in some way about 30% of the time.
Hi Ranble, sorry, no time to write during the last days...
I will write something about handanalysis a a common statement...
afterwards we can discuss your hand in more depth
GL at the tables....
(Would be nice to post the hand again, so we talk about the right hand :-)
Originally posted by Talisker74
Spoiler
Originally posted by Ramble
Originally posted by Talisker74
Hi,
i guess first we have to talk about preflop.
What is your intention with your 3bet?
(nothing wrong with that, nur WHY are you betting?Thanks for the question.
With my pre-flop 3bet, I'm hoping to take the pot down right there and not play out of position.
If I get called though, I'm ok with it. My hand stands up well to his range, probably marginally ahead. I'm also likely to connect with the flop in some way about 30% of the time.
Hi Ranble, sorry, no time to write during the last days...
I will write something about handanalysis a a common statement...
afterwards we can discuss your hand in more depthGL at the tables....
(Would be nice to post the hand again, so we talk about the right hand
Spoiler
Originally posted by Ramble
Find Something I Did...Wow, this is why we do hand reviews... what I found is that I should really be down about 4.5 buy-ins... I got lucky playing a hand I had no business playing and that saved me about a buy-in.
My post-flop game plan still needs a lot of work. my 2 biggest leaks were:
:diamond:I overplayed some hands with medium strength holdings - i.e. Top pair with medium kicker, flush on a possible full-house board, etc...
:diamond:Betting the river when I could only expect to be called by better.Here's one particularly horrible hand:
PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3Hero (BB): $9.85 (98.5 bb)
UTG: $26.80 (268 bb)
CO: $10.00 (100 bb)
BTN: $10.00 (100 bb)
SB: $11.52 (115.2 bb)
SB posts $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has A♦: 5♦:
2 folds, BTN raises to $0.30, fold, Hero raises to $0.90, BTN calls $0.60Flop: ($1.85, 2 players) 2♥: 4♥: J♥:
Hero checks, BTN checksTurn: ($1.85, 2 players) 3♣:
Hero bets $1.10, BTN raises to $3.90, Hero raises to $8.95 and is all-in, BTN calls $5.05River: ($19.75, 2 players) T♦:
Results: $19.75 pot ($0.89 rake)
Final Board: 2♥: 4♥: J♥: 3♣: T♦:Hero shows A♦: 5♦:: (Straight, Five High)
BTN shows ...My thoughts on the hand:
I think my check on the flop is ok. I don't think villain is going to give me much credit for hitting this flop given my 3-bet range pre-flop. I might be hitting it about 20% of the time (I didn't run the math, just a guess). On the other hand, it's not a flop villain will want to play often either and so maybe a c-bet to try and take it down is ok.As played - On the turn, I have to be honest here and say that I didn't really think of my gameplan that much. Otherwise I wouldn't have gotten in the trouble I did.
Looking at it now, here's my line of thought:
Betting out is ok.
:diamond:I could win the pot right away if villain folds or I could get value from villain's draws, pairs and sets.
:diamond:I wonder if a pot-size bet for protection against the flush and higher straight draws would be a better option though?
:diamond:If I get raised, I need to fold.
Checking is an option.
:diamond:check-fold - too weak
:diamond:check-raise - builds pot too big. I have to fold to a 4-bet, and if villain just calls, then I have to check-fold a decent hand on the river...
:diamond:check-call - the only checking option - keeps the pot size more in-line with my holdings.What are your thoughts?
Do you agree with my thoughts on each bet and check option above?
How would you play this hand?
@Talisker74 - Expand spoilers for relevant discussion and hand.
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Originally posted by Ramble
It's a pretty typical situation, just looking to see what your game plan is for the rest of the hand?
So for me (Disclaimer: I am NOT a coach!) I would bet this turn just a bit less than half pot, but get ready to fold to serious aggression.
Cheers,
Vorpal - no disclaimer needed - I appreciate your feedback very much. Thanks for sharing!
Had a very good session tonight... Up 1.5 buy-ins over about ~250 hands.
More than the results though, I'm very pleased with my play tonight. I really felt like I was sticking to my game plan on every street and adjusting as necessary. My pot-control was exactly where I wanted it in every hand.
My one take-away from tonight is that I need to re-examine my 3-bet/4-bet calling ranges. I think I've been calling a bit light.
Hello Ramble,
as promised some thoughts from me.
First something general when posting and discussing a hand:
Try to give any information you have about villain, and try to write down your thoughts to the hand and point out which is your problem/question to the hand.
And as you did, never post the outcome, so discussion could be result oriented....
And try to give villain a reasonable range on each street.
=> This is a lot of work, but the way you get most out of the discussion. // When posting and discussing more than one hand, go and numerate them.
When you are learning try to find hands with simular situations, f.e discuss just hands with the same situations BB vs. BU
Sorry, i do not have much time to write much more, but you should estimate villains range in each street.
f.e without any information on stats or read you can estimate the ranges you would play to have an idea what villain could have
That trains range thinking (you can train it in your software as well, search hand with see showdown and hide villains hole cards, go street by street and give villain a range, and when it is going to show down have a look if you where right....)
Hope that helps you...
f.e after your raise pre villain could defend this:
My Favorite hand of the Month
MP is a fish who has been opening a lot of pots and BTN has been calling him a fair amount.
PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3
BTN: $10.00 (100 bb)
SB: $14.20 (142 bb)
Hero (BB): $13.75 (137.5 bb)
UTG: $10.54 (105.4 bb)
MP: $5.60 (56 bb)
CO: $10.37 (103.7 bb)
SB posts $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has T♦: T♠:
fold, MP raises to $0.40, fold, BTN calls $0.40, fold, Hero calls $0.30
Flop: ($1.25, 3 players) A♥: A♠: A♦:
Hero checks, MP checks, BTN checks
Turn: ($1.25, 3 players) 7♣:
Hero bets $0.75, fold, BTN calls $0.75
River: ($2.75, 2 players) 7♥:
Hero bets $1.50, BTN raises to $8.85 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.35
Results: $20.45 pot ($0.92 rake)
Final Board: A♥: A♠: A♦: 7♣: 7♥:
BTN shows 7♦: 7♠:: (Four of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 18%, Flop 2%, Turn 2%)
Hero shows T♦: T♠:: (Full House, Aces full of Tens)
(Pre 82%, Flop 98%, Turn 98%)
BTN wins $19.53
Keeping the Positive Vibes Flowing
Had another good session again... Up 1.6 buy-ins over about 200 hands. I have to admit that I was hitting pretty good, but feel like I was making pretty good decisions in all hands. I had good awareness of my opponents play style and maintained good pot-control in most situations.
Although the hand in the post above was a bit of a cooler, I was serious about it being one of my favorite hands of the month... I mean it's stuff like that, that makes poker fun! It also proved my mental game is good, because it didn't seem to phase me a bit. I would 100% do it again.
As we near the end of the month, I'll be posting a monthly summary of my results. I've also been thinking of posting a "hand of the week" from my review sessions and providing a bit of my line of thought on it and hopefully get some feedback from others as well.
