"Expect a $50k downswing at high stakes Spins" - LORDBobby89

We chat to PokerStrategist and CardGrinders coach about winrates and challenges at the highest stakes Spin & Go levels.

What do you consider 'high stakes' where Spin & Go is concerned?

LORDbobby89:Terminology wise I would say that in Spins we can classify everything up to $5s as low stakes, $10s-$50s as mid stakes and $100s+ as high stakes.

What is the traffic like in the $100+ games? 

LORDbobby89: If we look at high stakes then the traffic greatly varies between the limits. On $100s you have pretty much nonstop action on Stars. Both on regular speed and flash games. But once you look at $250s+ that changes. Recreational traffic here is much more sporadically which adds a new interesting component – the lobby control meta game. $250s are the first limit where you can effectively control the lobbies if you’re capable of playing 9-12 tables. More tables than that are basically never running on any of those limits.

Now imagine you have 2 such regs sitting the lobbies. That makes it completely unattractive for any other given reg to start registering a few games. They are simply never going to play against a recreational player. Sometimes a reg of course tries to fight off one of the two sitting regs because he wants to take over one of their spots - and in case both sitting regs decide to defend than those are basically the only times where you have really high traffic. Otherwise it’s mostly a waiting game for the limited recreational traffic.

"I play 3,200 high stakes Spins a month"

If you play the $250s, is it a necessity to also play the $100s while you wait for games to fill up?

LORDbobby89: It depends on the volume of the monthly poker challenge (MPC) and personal preferences. The top regs who have relatively small MPCs are able to complete them by just playing the sitting and waiting game all month on $250s+ (+ the additional occasional battles). If your MPC is big, however, that becomes less convenient because suddenly you simply have to sit really many hours with that strategy. Some regs still do it that way. Personally, I don’t like playing all day and I prefer a few hours that are very intense (due to high amount of tables) over more hours with lower intensity. I therefore always add a few $100s tables on the side to get the rake in faster. This way I need around 100 hours per month to clear my volume.

What volume are you looking to achieve in the high stakes Spins?

LORDbobby89: I need to play the equivalent of 3,200 games on $250s per month in order to clear my MPC. That means per hour I average the equivalent of 32 games on $250s (100 hours total).

How big a bankroll would a non-staked player need in these games? 

LORDbobby89: Frankly, a very big one. Sooner or later if you play $250+ you WILL have a $50k downswing. That money doesn't get lost in one day though so there is some time to deposit more when things go down. Still, the funds need to be somewhere. -10k days happen every month btw if that's a good fun fact.

Do you get the biggest gamblers in the $250s? Are they paradoxically softer than some lower levels?

LORDbobby89: Unfortunately not. Even the recreational players on $250s+ are more solid than the ones on lower stakes. They are often MTT regs or have another profound poker background. Still, once in a while you get that one random guy who comes out of nowhere, seems to play poker for the first time, and starts multitabling the $1,000 games for one hour. That’s when the adrenaline spikes and you know that this session will greatly determine your financial result of the whole month.

"It takes two years to hit the high stakes"

What is a good winrate in the high stakes Spins?

LORDbobby89: If we look at the average decent high stakes reg we can currently expect 2% EVROI on $100s and 1.5% on $250s (regular speed games). The absolute top regs can increase that winrate by 0.5-1%, achieving $6/game on 250s and $10/game on 500s.

How quickly can a staked player progress from small stakes to high stakes?

LORDbobby89: That greatly varies from player to player. I would say that the transition to high stakes is very tough and requires an exceptional work ethic, discipline and mindset – nowadays more than ever. The competition on $100s+ is very strong and in order to succeed there you need to perform at a very high level. Many players do not thrive in such high pressure environments and prefer to grind on mid stakes despite their very profound game knowledge. Winrates there are much higher (4%+ on 25s) and if you bring your B game for two weeks because life is rough you’re still going to make money.

My friend and fellow coach at CardGrinders, piupz, and myself started playing Spins on the lowest stakes in 2018. We both managed to reach $100s within one year back then. I wouldn’t say it’s impossible to repeat that in current times but it’s certainly harder and I think it’s more realistic for most (highly motivated) beginners to plan with two years instead.

If you are interested in Spin & Go staking and coaching from CardGrinders, check out their staking thread in our forum. 

What was your biggest Spin & Go downswing? Let us know in the comments: