Diamond Days: Advanced and Unconventional Lines - Part 1

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In his first video for PokerStrategy.com YourDoomPoker analyzes some hands he played on mostly shallow highstakes tables. He will show you how to take non-standard lines to extract more value against better opponents.


Advanced and Unconventional Lines Diamond Days handreview shallow

Comments (34)

newest first
  • FishermansFriend


    Enjoy the video and please keep the comments in English!
  • gover1980


    good video thx!
  • lessthanthreee


    really enjoyed this. you have a great teaching style. looking forward to some more 40bb action.
  • i5bet72o


    "raising for information"...when i was learning poker i heard that this is soo bad, but honestly i think its fine here
  • Huckebein


    Hey guys, where are your comments? We'd like to have your feedback :)
  • sjengfred


    Nice video. The A8 hand, what would you have done on the turn if it wasn't an 8?
  • roflushh


    good question, how do you proceed without another 8?
  • praios


    most is really basic stuff and no diamond content at all
  • JTtotheD


    - what is your plan on different turns that do not improve you hand?
    - what do you think about villain betting the turn mit AK?
    you say his turncall is good but I think the fact that he bets and then tanks after your shove shows that he is not really thinking. tbh i do not like his bet there if he does not want to snap your shove. I think I would never bet there espeally with the nutflushdraw-blocker
  • Ninjai


    Hello Sir and welcome!

    AQ: You dont really think players fold TT+ here, do you? If you dont think he can call with Q high or fold A high, what's the point of showing anyway? For our range, a shove might potentially be best but you didn't even go into that tbh.

    Say he calls, turn blanks or gives the clubdraw. I guess while you XF the clubdraw most likely, I assume you bet the turn and he a) jams, b) calls, what's your thoughts then on a club river and a blank river?

    You say, he's gonna bet a 100% on the flop, which is just atrocious to somebody with a decent gameplan. Don't you think? Can you elaborate on that? As I don't believe you'll see folds of players with a decent balanced flop betting-range.

    Could you please explain why you cbet that hand in the first place and which gameplan you have w/ A2o here? Furthermore, if you face a decent player in that action, do you ever think somebody is bluffing with a wide enough range you beat by the river?

    For further productions I think everybody would really appreciate 100bb+ games. Moreover, if you could elaborate on your thought process a bit more, especially leaning towards your gameplan in different situations, e.g. the A8 hand, where I guess it is by far the most interesting thing if you don't improve on the turn.

    As for general feedback: this video might be nice for some shallow players but I unforunately don't think that video lives up to the expectations of the "NL BSS 1-5k SH" title tbh.
  • Kaitz20


    The biggest problem is see c/r A8 on Q8x board, is that what would we really do if he 3-bets us or even calls and we don´t hit our 5 outer. Usually we don´t rep anything so we might get 3-bet bluffed by worse hand and likely he isn´t going to fold better hand. So we have to hope he is b/c his floats and then we should c/c turn and hope river goes c/c. Thats why I´d rather prefer leading out that spot twice and if I would constantly lead these spots then players would not play back every single time. Rest of the hands had interesting lines and with that big winrate you likely know what you´re doing :)
  • roflushh


    excellent video btw :)
  • JTtotheD


    J2s Hand where you defend oop:
    if you do not want to lead out on a J or 4 turn, there is really no hand you would bet there for value with - isnt that extremly exploitable? what is your riverplan if he calls? fire another barrel or shut down?
  • e2e4e5


    What you'll do if your opp plays the complete bluff, which means he bluffs on the river?
  • timewarior


    nice video
  • FiftyFifty


    4:00 - AQo

    I think the AQ Hand is very standard with this stacksize. I would like to know how you handle eff. stacksizes around 35-40bb where its not so obvious if a call has more EV than a shove. I would love to hear your thoughts about that.

    17:00 - A8o

    Like many others before i would like to know how you handle a non-8-Turn. How do you play a worse Middlepair in that spot like 87s? And on the other hand how do you play the "next best hand" TPWK like Q9s or something like that. Thanks in advance for answering.
  • Magic567


    thank you very much
  • fusionpk


    hey I hope I am not the only one to think this and I say this respectfully,

    I thought this video was reasonably poor and I also found the title very misleading.

    The title 'Advanced and Unconventional Lines' to me meant that I was going to see alot of creativity, especially in the form of levelling/inducing/balancing, and also to expect 100bb+ etc. I expected deep analysis of spots to improve ones game particularly vs regs.

    However, I seemed to learn the basics of playing a ~40bb stack. I thought the content was very 'basic', you taught us how to make basic calculations and how to work out things like combos.. I don't think anyone playing these limits is going to not know how to calculate # of set combos.. really doesn't seem like a diamond video.

    with the A8 hand u just explain that 3b'ing is bad, u don't explain ur reasons for calling and wat u do in this spot. Personally, I think this spot is very opp dependant. 60% btn range isnt that super wide, I honestly believe calling A8o vs alot of opps sb vs btn is going to be a leak, yes u are ahead of his range but u are going ot have to expect big skill advantage to outplay him w/o position or initiative. Vs weak opponents sure it's a call, but u don't go into any detail about when u call this hand, why u call it, when u fold it, why u fold it, just that in general alot of smaller stakes regs make the mistake of 3b'ing this hand.. again, another very very basic thing, u rly think regs watching this vid arn't going to know the pros/cons of 3b'ing sb vs btn spot. Like in this spot i definitly think u are folding vs some opps, calling vs others and 3b'ing vs some (guys that open rly wide and fold alot to 3b's), u just explain that its a leak and u shudnt do it.

    Hopefully the next vid is better and u don't take these comments to heart and just as constructive criticism (it is only my opinion of course).

    Thanks, I honestly hope u dont take this negative comment badly and just appreciate my views.
  • paradoxpoker


    agree and then the poor translation wich isnt fixed yet. but thats not your fault ;)
  • YourDoomPoker


    Hey guys, thanks for all the positive feedback! First I want to apologize for the fact that this was my first video and is a bit rough around the edges. I have since spent a lot of time improving my presentation technique. My 2nd video (part 2 of this series) will be in the same format but will flow much smoother.

    Also 7 out of the 8 hands in my next two videos are all 100BB hands.

    I'll be addressing your comments very soon!
  • Pascal


    @ paradox
    the translation blony mentioned is already fixed
  • YourDoomPoker


    #6 sjengfred, 02 Jun 11 05:54

    In general, either xF (check fold) or lead out based on the turn texture and opponent. Obviously I can't go into detail about every possible scenario that could occur. I can tell you that I have a lifetime -9.99BB/100 winrate in the BB in 3 through 9 handed play in over 4 years of play. I was told today that that may be some kind of world record. I'm not sure about that exactly, but if I owned a restaurant, my signature dish would certainly be "defending your blinds." It's a topic I spend a great deal of time on with most of my students.

    I think that since there are multiple questions about this hand, the best way to address all of them would be to produce a future video completely on defending your blinds in which I will go into much more detail on this and other spots.
  • YourDoomPoker


    #9 JTtotheD, 02 Jun 11 06:51

    From his point of view I am x folding there most of the time, so I like and was expecting his bet.

    I don't really feel that his turn call was "good." But I do understand it.
  • YourDoomPoker


    #10 Ninjai, 02 Jun 11 06:54
    Hello Sir and welcome!

    Thanks! :D

    AQ: You dont really think players fold TT+ here, do you? If you dont think he can call with Q high or fold A high, what's the point of showing anyway? For our range, a shove might potentially be best but you didn't even go into that tbh.

    I do. The river shove was not a value bet. It was to get him to fold better or equal hands.

    Say he calls, turn blanks or gives the clubdraw. I guess while you XF the clubdraw most likely, I assume you bet the turn and he a) jams, b) calls, what's your thoughts then on a club river and a blank river?

    I think the # of scenarios that could possibly occur on the turn and river here are way to numerous to fully explore in this video, let alone in the comments, unless you want to watch a 40 min video all on 1 single hand :)

    You say, he's gonna bet a 100% on the flop, which is just atrocious to somebody with a decent gameplan. Don't you think? Can you elaborate on that? As I don't believe you'll see folds of players with a decent balanced flop betting-range.

    I'm not sure what hand he would ever check here. I can't think of one.

    Could you please explain why you cbet that hand in the first place and which gameplan you have w/ A2o here?

    I probably have the best hand and I have position. Why would I check? Betting is the best play here for certain.
  • YourDoomPoker


    #13 JTtotheD, 02 Jun 11 07:12

    With trips or a slowplayed big pair, I would take the same line for value. Of course he doesn't know that my value range is so small.
  • YourDoomPoker


    #16 FiftyFifty, 02 Jun 11 10:19
    4:00 - AQo

    With those stack sizes I would of shipped for value preflop.
  • IronPumper


    I have found the vid pretty good, but would also wish to see you in the future playing more 100BB+_spots.
    Anyways, I like the vid and I also think that you have a very good ability of explaining certain concepts - thx:)

    all my questions to HHs are already answered so far b/c other ppl already have posted them^^

    So here is a general question:
    What are for example your stats on shallow tables when you play on these ones?
    Are they similar to the Midstack-REGs on regular 6-max tables -> very high 3bet_stats from the blinds, very very small "cal-open_stats", ridic high SB-oR-stat,
    ridic high cbetstats umless often on the river (most of the MidstackRegs have often here their point of honesty...).

    Maybe you even have to play in this manner to win on the shallow tables?
    I just try to find out how i can imagine the daily grinding on such shallow tables - I mean all the spots in the vid have been pretty interesting with lots of postflopplay and postflop-deciscions - nut I am just not sure if this is normal on the shallow tables or if most spots are just preflopspots with lots of 3betting and folding....

    Furthermore, do you rly think that there are higher WRs on these shallow tables possible?
    The thing is, even though there the REG-fish-ratio is much better, mostly you only can charge the fishes`s mistakes for effective smaller stacks...
    I am a NL 6max MSNL-REG (100BB+) - what you think on mixing shallowtables with regular tables?
    Do you think it is a good idea or do you think that it could confuse you too often in game due to the different stacksizes...?
    What is your opinion on this one?
  • YourDoomPoker


    Hey Ironpumper, all of my upcoming videos will be 100BB videos.

    In the 2 months I played the shallow tables on FT, I ran horrible but can tell you that my expected winrate was $1.50/hand for 10/20 and $0.90/hand for 5/T.

    If you're interested in the math behind a 40BB stack I teach this lesson privately in a 1.5 to 2.5 hour block depending on if you only want the 20BB ratholer playbook as well.

    This knowledge is also great for mtts, buying in short on a 100BB table to exploit their bet sizing, or even if you prefer 100BB only, just understanding what these midstackers are doing and how to combat them.

    The main reason I learned 40BB poker was to play the shallow tables on FT. They are by far the softest tables around. See my rant in my private coaching thread to see what I mean.

    And feel free to email me at YourDoomPoker@gmail.com to further discuss private coaching.
  • Ninjai


    Thx for the quick feedback but fwiw I can't really agree on some things or in other words, I don't see a logical explanation, so maybe you could just go a bit more into detail.

    AQ: I think he might be folding small PPs for sure, but TT+ is never to be folded out here by a good player in my opinion. He knows you gonna call the flop really wide and there's only a very few combinations of KQ/KJ/KT that you could actually value shove, saying that I guess a lot of good regular might even call you with A-high here given the pot-size and preflop play, since you have a good amount of missed gutshots here.

    But overall it is a lot better to shove here for our range as we want to merge all our hands here. We cannot just check/give up with Q/A high and want him to fold, however, I don't think you ever mentioned that. So, is this just something trivial for you or do you just play every hand individually?

    A8: No offence meant and with all due respect as towards your skill and winnings. But what shall I and maybe some others even find useful from that response. I guess that XR is quite unconventional so why not just explain briefly what you would have done once you got called and didn't improve. You must have some gameplan after all.

    J4: Well, that leaves you with a 100% cbetting-range on that particular board? I guess a good player will have a decent checking-range on that board with some weak A-high,K-high,Q-high hands and maybe even total trash. Maybe I am mistaken but could you then explain how often you will just barrel through with 72o or Q7/K8 e.g. being the BTN?

    A2: Fwiw, he took almost the same line you took with your J4 hand, so it's a bit controversial to me listening to both of your explanations. Now, with the J4 you say he's cbetting a 100%, which you obviously do too being in the A2 hand now. Then again you say leading turns on such a board doesn't make that much sense, so why should yours with J4?

    Thx in advance for your patience and efforts.
  • noisecore


    Midstacking? nice :D

    Do you only play 40BB on the shallow tables or did you also play it on the 40-100BB tables? Because to me it seems like you can exploit the maths behind a Midstack vs. Bigstack more on the 40-100BB tables.
  • YourDoomPoker


    Hey noisecore!

    Yes, my 40BB strategy can absolutely be applied to 40-100BB tables. And it certain does exploit the big stacks for even more +EV. The reason I preferred the shallow tables on FT however, was just that they were so much softer than 100BB tables and I felt I could make more money.

    I've never bought in for 40BBs on a 100BB tables, bc even though I'd certainly have an edge playing that stack size, I feel I have an even larger edge playing w 100BBs. I've played 100BB most of my career. That's my main game.
  • YourDoomPoker


    Hey Ninjai!

    AQ: Each opponent, table, dynamic and hand is always different. Given all of those things, I felt strongly that I could rep a K here and that'd he'd fold TT. Sure I could be wrong, but even if I got him to fold A high, the move was a success.

    A8: My gameplan is to usually either barrel the turn, or xF based on a wide number of factors. A video on defending your BB vs a late pos steal is already in the works...I promise it'll answer all of your questions...

    J4: He can c bet 100% profitably there vs most players bc most players will just be folding. And if he get's xR on the flop, he'll throw out a decent number of 3 bet bluffs. I don't think he had a good gameplan for my line though, which is why I like it so much :)

    A2: I love his line. I think it's a +EV play over time. It just didn't work against me bc I suspected what he was up to :) My point is though, that you should incorporate this line into your game and expect good results...
  • Fox128


    About the bluff x/C flop - donk turn line: You say you would donk any turn that doesn't improve you:

    So this applies to an Ace on the turn aswell?

    The problem I have with that is: wouldn't it make more sense to let villain barrel off, if we actually had a hand like trips?
    So the only hands we are representing would probably be a an Ace or a draw, which leads to my next question: If you actually had an Ace and get top pair on the turn, would you donk it against a reg? (maybe it's common play, I don't know I'm not a heads-up expert). I mean if not, this play'd be really unbalanced on A-hi turns, right?
  • YourDoomPoker


    Hey Fox,

    If I hit an ace on the turn, my hand would now be too good to be bluffing with it, so I would then xC with it and use the hand as a bluff catcher.

    So, no, I wouldn't donk if I hit an A, but he doesn't know that. And there's other hands that I could have other than a turned ace.

    Mainly though, if he had no ace and now had two undercards, he'd be less inclined to float or make a move on me. Most players just fold.