River decision : Straight on a paired board

Originally posted by la55i
For NL5 regular losing couple of buy-ins at NL10 will hit pretty hard.

Dont think so.
U just said u lost 4 buy ins in a session bc standard variance. I can bet u wasnt crushed bc of that. And thats the same amount an NL5 regular ll pay if he loses a couple of buy ins at NL10.
In my sessions, this isnt that much either, and I can win/loose even more (I like big sessions).
If the guy is an NL5 regular, I believe he can afford it.

On the other hand, if he cant. Them I agree w u he shouldnt play there.

Originally posted by Hesticus
There is a lot to say about limp/raise. My thinking is if you raise with J-10 and get reraised big, you have to fold OOP. In other words, a marginal hand will decrease in value (and not just a little bit, it has than the same value as a 7-2o so to say, since you will fold obviously). Therefore, limping in this situation is fine IMO to keep value.

What the hell am I just reading?

Originally posted by la55i
I agree with nitrol here. NL10 can be pretty tough for NL5 player and you can lose a lot in 500 hands. We do not know if hero plays NL5 or NL2 regularly and we do not know his skill level. If he is good player at NL5 I think it shouldn't be so scary to play NL10 that he won't raise pre.

You said that variance will hit us no matter what stakes we are playing.. This is very much true but did it cross your mind that he might not be bankrolled to play at that level? For NL5 regular losing couple of buy-ins at NL10 will hit pretty hard.

Not only. He can get scared of the pot size.He will face much more aggression-preflopand postflop.There will be 3 bets preflop , raises and re-raises postflop. There will be situations,for which hero is not prepared and I do believe they will be a good number of hands... and as we add tilt...

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by la55i
For NL5 regular losing couple of buy-ins at NL10 will hit pretty hard.

Dont think so.
U just said u lost 4 buy ins in a session bc standard variance. I can bet u wasnt crushed bc of that. And thats the same amount an NL5 regular ll pay if he loses a couple of buy ins at NL10.
In my sessions, this isnt that much either, and I can win/loose even more (I like big sessions).
If the guy is an NL5 regular, I believe he can afford it.

On the other hand, if he cant. Them I agree w u he shouldnt play there.

If nl5 player moves up just because there is promotion going - do you think he has the proper Bankroll for that?
I do think he will not have, and that is why it is not a wise move.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by la55i
For NL5 regular losing couple of buy-ins at NL10 will hit pretty hard.

Dont think so.
U just said u lost 4 buy ins in a session bc standard variance. I can bet u wasnt crushed bc of that. And thats the same amount an NL5 regular ll pay if he loses a couple of buy ins at NL10.
In my sessions, this isnt that much either, and I can win/loose even more (I like big sessions).
If the guy is an NL5 regular, I believe he can afford it.

On the other hand, if he cant. Them I agree w u he shouldnt play there.

If nl5 player moves up just because there is promotion going - do you think he has the proper Bankroll for that?
I do think he will not have, and that is why it is not a wise move.

I think its totally possible.
My bankroll management follow the rule of 100 buy ins. If a make this move up to a promo or such, I would still have 50 buy ins.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i
I agree with nitrol here. NL10 can be pretty tough for NL5 player and you can lose a lot in 500 hands. We do not know if hero plays NL5 or NL2 regularly and we do not know his skill level. If he is good player at NL5 I think it shouldn't be so scary to play NL10 that he won't raise pre.

You said that variance will hit us no matter what stakes we are playing.. This is very much true but did it cross your mind that he might not be bankrolled to play at that level? For NL5 regular losing couple of buy-ins at NL10 will hit pretty hard.

Not only. He can get scared of the pot size.He will face much more aggression-preflopand postflop.There will be 3 bets preflop , raises and re-raises postflop. There will be situations,for which hero is not prepared and I do believe they will be a good number of hands... and as we add tilt...

U are saying here like NL5 and NL10 are two whole different worlds. What I strongly disagree.

It is a fact, that NL10 is slighty more aggressive and this can result in frustration in Hero.

100 buy-ins?? That is a lot. A few years back when I was introduced to BRM the suggestion was 20 buy-ins. At the moment I'm using 30 buy-in bankroll

I would also say that difference between NL5 and NL10 is pretty big.
1. money wise, with 30bin brm @ NL5 it would really hurt hero and he would play scared
2. I think the skill level is more advanced and the game is more aggressive

But I guess it depends on site which you are playing on also.

Are you playing NL10? If you think the skill level is not so different and you already have more than big enough bankroll, why wouldn't you play there? More money is always fun

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by la55i
For NL5 regular losing couple of buy-ins at NL10 will hit pretty hard.

Dont think so.
U just said u lost 4 buy ins in a session bc standard variance. I can bet u wasnt crushed bc of that. And thats the same amount an NL5 regular ll pay if he loses a couple of buy ins at NL10.
In my sessions, this isnt that much either, and I can win/loose even more (I like big sessions).
If the guy is an NL5 regular, I believe he can afford it.

On the other hand, if he cant. Them I agree w u he shouldnt play there.

If nl5 player moves up just because there is promotion going - do you think he has the proper Bankroll for that?
I do think he will not have, and that is why it is not a wise move.

I think its totally possible.
My bankroll management follow the rule of 100 buy ins. If a make this move up to a promo or such, I would still have 50 buy ins.

We are not talking about your BR. Villain is a nl5 reg and is nowplaying higherlimit because of promo. If he had the needed BR he would have moved already to nl10....
It is not adviseable to move limits if not ready with the proper BR and skills, even for a juicy promo.
That's all.

Originally posted by la55i
100 buy-ins?? That is a lot. A few years back when I was introduced to BRM the suggestion was 20 buy-ins. At the moment I'm using 30 buy-in bankroll

I would also say that difference between NL5 and NL10 is pretty big.
1. money wise, with 30bin brm @ NL5 it would really hurt hero and he would play scared
2. I think the skill level is more advanced and the game is more aggressive

But I guess it depends on site which you are playing on also.

Are you playing NL10? If you think the skill level is not so different and you already have more than big enough bankroll, why wouldn't you play there? More money is always fun

I play in both of them, thats why I m saying what u already read.

On which site?

Originally posted by nitrol
We are not talking about your BR. Villain is a nl5 reg and is nowplaying higherlimit because of promo. If he had the needed BR he would have moved already to nl10....
It is not adviseable to move limits if not ready with the proper BR and skills, even for a juicy promo.
That's all.

Man, I m saying that he CAN possibly be using a conservative BRM like I do. And do this thing without being so exposed.

Originally posted by nitrol
On which site?

ipoker

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol
We are not talking about your BR. Villain is a nl5 reg and is nowplaying higherlimit because of promo. If he had the needed BR he would have moved already to nl10....
It is not adviseable to move limits if not ready with the proper BR and skills, even for a juicy promo.
That's all.

Man, I m saying that he CAN possibly be using a conservative BRM like I do. And do this thing without being so exposed.

So? If he is not ready to move, it is not wise to do it because of a promo... That' it.

I believe that meaning of BRM is that you can not lose your whole bankroll because of variance and 30-40 buy-ins will do that. 40 bin brm is already conservative and everything bigger is just useless.. Imo keeping 40 or 100 is not much different..

Since you play both can I ask you why don't you stick to NL10. It would make you more $$$ and you would get to higher level faster. Or is the case that you would just lose more $$$ instead of winning? What are your winrates to both.

The case for me is a bit different la55i. Will tell u, and hope guys here to at least respect my point.
Like I read in one book that I found to be great... "having this kind of bankroll gives u the feelling like u just paid ur house".
U can deal w variance in a very easy way, and almost never go on tilt. Thats the benefit.

Originally posted by 2reac

Originally posted by Hesticus
There is a lot to say about limp/raise. My thinking is if you raise with J-10 and get reraised big, you have to fold OOP. In other words, a marginal hand will decrease in value (and not just a little bit, it has than the same value as a 7-2o so to say, since you will fold obviously). Therefore, limping in this situation is fine IMO to keep value.

What the hell am I just reading?

Easy game - make sense of no limit hold 'em (Andrew Seldman) Chapter 27: Dealing with Polarized Ranges and Calling Big Bets OOP section 'Everything Range'

Limp/raise happens way too rarely to be an issue. You can't use the "what if he raises me" question to determine how to play in most scenarios, especially on micros. I've seen too many people scared to take aggressive lines because they might get raised, even if this will happen <5% of the time in the spot. In other words, don't be scared of raises before they happen.
There are of course some spots where you will get raised often so you have to consider it but I'm not talking about these. What you want to avoid is the fear of getting raised when there are no indications it is going to happen.

Originally posted by Hesticus

Originally posted by 2reac

Originally posted by Hesticus
There is a lot to say about limp/raise. My thinking is if you raise with J-10 and get reraised big, you have to fold OOP. In other words, a marginal hand will decrease in value (and not just a little bit, it has than the same value as a 7-2o so to say, since you will fold obviously). Therefore, limping in this situation is fine IMO to keep value.

What the hell am I just reading?

Easy game - make sense of no limit hold 'em (Andrew Seldman) Chapter 27: Dealing with Polarized Ranges and Calling Big Bets OOP section 'Everything Range'

Doesn`t make any sense.

Originally posted by 2reac

Originally posted by Hesticus

Originally posted by 2reac

Originally posted by Hesticus
There is a lot to say about limp/raise. My thinking is if you raise with J-10 and get reraised big, you have to fold OOP. In other words, a marginal hand will decrease in value (and not just a little bit, it has than the same value as a 7-2o so to say, since you will fold obviously). Therefore, limping in this situation is fine IMO to keep value.

What the hell am I just reading?

Easy game - make sense of no limit hold 'em (Andrew Seldman) Chapter 27: Dealing with Polarized Ranges and Calling Big Bets OOP section 'Everything Range'

Doesn`t make any sense.

I agree. This is completely idiotic. I found that book using google and I can not find that chapter.. It is 7 years old book so it is very much outdated..
JTs is a standard open from SB and here we should punish the limper.. If we face a 3bet JTs is a standard call. I don't want to offend you but your thinking here is poor.. You would end up playing with 5% vpip and not stealing or defending your hands. Maybe this would have worked 10 years ago...