Jaxtraw's encompassing Sit & Go thread

I will start with a hand from a solid mid-level student of mine

THis is a 6-player SNG, top two get paid.
Blinds are 100/200
The table image of YYY is he is not good, on the passive side
What does XXX do on flop?

Seat 6 is the button
Seat 3: XXX( $2978.00 USD )
Seat 5: YYY ( $3626.00 USD )
Seat 6: ZZZ ( $2396.00 USD )
XXX posts small blind [$100.00 USD].
YYY posts big blind [$200.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to XXX [ Kc Jd ]
ZZZ folds
XXX raises [$450.00 USD]
YYY calls [$250.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, Js, 8c ]
XXX ?

Thoughts on how to proceed?

Cbet flop, against passive, probably fold to aggression, as he can hit this bigtime, and probably won't spaz with a draw.

If called, go broke on any blank turn. No SD, FD completion.

If bet/folding flop, be looking to push into BB next hand if possible.

limp/stab pre. bet/evaluate flop. cant really see myself bet/folding here.

ps. WELCOME ♦

Against a passive player, I would continuation bet as we have top pair AND an excellent kicker. Depending on how passive he is, I'm unsure Q 10 would be in his range. And a cbet would force most passive players to fold.

If re-raised, I would assume YYY has a monster and would probably let go of the hand.

That said.... I'm still a poker baby, so may have my thought process all wrong!

Originally posted by jaxtraw
I will start with a hand from a solid mid-level student of mine

THis is a 6-player SNG, top two get paid.
Blinds are 100/200
The table image of YYY is a good regular
What does XXX do on flop?

Seat 6 is the button
Seat 3: XXX( $2978.00 USD )
Seat 5: YYY ( $3626.00 USD )
Seat 6: ZZZ ( $2396.00 USD )
XXX posts small blind [$100.00 USD].
YYY posts big blind [$200.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to XXX [ Kc Jd ]
ZZZ folds
XXX raises [$450.00 USD]
YYY calls [$250.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, Js, 8c ]
XXX ?

Thoughts on how to proceed?

Good responses, and I agree that leading out will give us the most value. I have changed Villain back to his original description as a good reg, does this change our play on the flop at all?

Versus aggressive reg I would never fold after cbet there. So many draws and one pair+draw combinations villain could give pressure with. Though another question is what hand range good reg is going to flat call preflop with less than 15bb effectives in bubble. Pretty nice spot to resteal wide depending of previous history and hero play style.

I think against the passive opponent we should be raising preflop. We don't have to worry about him jamming over our raise with worse hands like we would if he was a good regular. We have a good hand which flops nicely so I definitely want to get money in the pot. I think this is preferable to jamming preflop (although I think that is still unexploitable?). On the flop I think we can bet/fold pretty comfortably expecting (given our reads) to be raised only by two pairs and flopped straights. once we bet the flop, I think we can't avoid shoving on the turn if it's a blank. If a draw completes I think we can check/fold on the basis that passive villain should check behind his showdown hands on turn/River.

Against a good regular I think we should give serious thought to either limp/jamming if he is aggressive or just open shoving preflop. Nash looks to be around 68% with 14bb hee.

As played I think we just bet/call the flop unless we know that this Reg is only flatting his monsters at this stage in the tournament.

I would also like to welcome you!

Regardless the image of the Villain here, given stack sizes, we usually raise KJ preflop BvB, and fold to a 3bet preflop

On a wettish flop we hit top pair good kicker. Against a passive player who we are unsure will take a stab if checked to him, we must go ahead and Cbet. Passive villains will call us with less, and this way we do not give up free cards.

Against a solid reg:

Ghaleon,

Playing BvB, even at 15bb, a good reg in the BB will smooth call our preflop raises a fair amount of times with mediocre hands that play pretty well post flop in position. He knows we will be trying to steal, and will mix in flatting with shoving so as to make blind stealing a great deal more difficult for us. Good regs do not want their blinds to be marked as easy prey, and therefore will defend more than the random. The more villain defends whether with a shove or call, the more risky stealing against said villain becomes. Not only do some good villains smooth call here with 15bb, they also have the ability to float our Cbets with the intention of taking it down on the turn. This type of player makes the game especially hard in the blinds.

Tim,

THanks for the the welcome. Regarding your line against the passive guy, we are not too happy to get our Cbet raised, but he can be making that play with a fair amount of hands we are ahead (worse jacks, pairs+draws, even MPGK), and we have blockers. With the money in, we really can not fold there, however I agree if called on the flop, to pushing a blank turn or c/f a draw card.

All,

Against a good regular, on this flop, is it better to lead or check raise here?

Originally posted by jaxtraw
Against a solid reg:

Ghaleon,

Playing BvB, even at 15bb, a good reg in the BB will smooth call our preflop raises a fair amount of times with mediocre hands that play pretty well post flop in position. He knows we will be trying to steal, and will mix in flatting with shoving so as to make blind stealing a great deal more difficult for us. Good regs do not want their blinds to be marked as easy prey, and therefore will defend more than the random. The more villain defends whether with a shove or call, the more risky stealing against said villain becomes. Not only do some good villains smooth call here with 15bb, they also have the ability to float our Cbets with the intention of taking it down on the turn. This type of player makes the game especially hard in the blinds.

Floating has to be in BB arsenal to make such call profitable at all.

Problem with call is still that in blind versus blind so shallow SB might not need much of a hand to go broke. Especially if he expect BB to be floating often he will often check turn to allow BB continue his possible float plan. Flop cbet is likely to be 450-500 so in turn pot is going to be close to 2000 and SB will have 1 psb left. So personally I prefer to shove wide in BB shoes, if I expect SB to be pretty loose in his stealing and if I don't see shoving profitable then just fold. Versus some villains it's probably better to just call, but I see it bit more risky overall? Bit deeper I like defending with call much more than in this spot.

Originally posted by jaxtraw
All,

Against a good regular, on this flop, is it better to lead or check raise here?

Default for me is to cbet. Both line might look strong anyway in such flop, but with check-shove we likely get action from tighter range and give possibility for free card. Depends on dynamics, but in such flop BB has to be carefull of possibility that SB is planning to check-shove also some of his drawing hands so he might only bet hands he is ready to call shove and check behind other hands most of time.

shove pre vs solid reg.

if you somehow managed to make it to the flop i think c/r or b/c are close. i would probably b. then c/shove blank turn if he floated

Originally posted by ghaleon

but in such flop BB has to be carefull of possibility that SB is planning to check-shove also some of his drawing hands so he might only bet hands he is ready to call shove and check behind other hands most of time.

Exactly when sng play turns interesting! Factoring metagame into our current line of play will help determine the which action will give us greater value.

Hey LT3,

The villain in the hand is a solid reg. Pushing pre, and standard raising are both good lines to balance our ranges, this time hero decided to SR. As played I think c/r and cbetting are close in value. But against a reg who might think we will not cbet a miss on a wet board this shallow,c/r might give us more value.

Originally posted by jaxtraw
Hey LT3,

The villain in the hand is a solid reg. Pushing pre, and standard raising are both good lines to balance our ranges, this time hero decided to SR. As played I think c/r and cbetting are close in value. But against a reg who might think we will not cbet a miss on a wet board this shallow,c/r might give us more value.

hey ♦

yeah the only problem I see with c/r is when villain bet/calls we are toast. so by c/r we basically just turn our hand into a bluff. there is some arguments to this being a good line, because its the bubble we dont want villain to bet/call strong draws or float us. so taking a c/r and making villain bet/fold hands that have a ton of equity against us isnt so bad.

I dont think you can exploit a good reg oop when he has a ton of chip leverage against you on the bubble, which is why i think shoving pre with 100% of your range is easily the best option. if villain was a BE reg, or an unknown its a different story. but against someone who will play near perfectly post-flop how can we expect to gain any more EV by raising small. we actually open ourselves up to raise/fold these types of hands pre which are clear +EV shoves. very easy to exploit someone using this strategy on the bubble, even if you balance, its still super exploitable.

Interesting hand while given a lesson today.

6Player turbo-Top Two get paid
Both reg s\and villain are good players
BB 200
xxx 3690button
yyy 2035 sb
zzz 3275 bb

xxx raises to 400
yyy folds
zzz has A9hh ?

What does zzz do?

snap jam with a side of peanut butter.

anything else seems not so good.

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
snap jam with a side of peanut butter.

anything else seems not so good.

Im sorry,

Hand should read:

6Player turbo-Top Two get paid
Both reg s\and villain are good players
BB 200
xxx 3690button
yyy 2035 sb
zzz 3275 bb

xxx raises to 400
yyy folds
zzz has A9hh ?

Didn't see the original post but shove still seems good. Folding leaves our range far too tight, if we call we are in a rough spot - OOP vs. chip leader on the bubble and would have to c/f too many flops.

Would be interested to see what would make up our re-shove range here and how this range is derived - i.e What range does villain open? What range can we expect him to call vs. shove? What equity does our hand need vs. this range to be +$EV with regard to the short stack?

Can someone show me some maths ? ♦

Originally posted by jaxtraw

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
snap jam with a side of peanut butter.

anything else seems not so good.

Im sorry,

Hand should read:

6Player turbo-Top Two get paid
Both reg s\and villain are good players
BB 200
xxx 3690button
yyy 2035 sb
zzz 3275 bb

xxx raises to 400
yyy folds
zzz has A9hh ?

Correction: To clairfy, Wiz says to fold if we know Villain is Opening: 4o% and calling11%.

For villain, is this a spot then, where Standard Raise/Folding will be more advantageous than Push/Folding?