Discussion Thread: The Basics

  • 57 replies
    • jdm159
      jdm159
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2012 Posts: 1
      I am new to poker. Why is the button the in position when the big blind is the last person to act?
    • lkdr9494
      lkdr9494
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      Joined: 26.01.2012 Posts: 210
      The big blind is the last person to act ONLY pre-flop.
      The rest of the hand the button is the last person to act (on the flop-turn and river).
    • PipiRedstar
      PipiRedstar
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      Joined: 09.12.2012 Posts: 26
      QUESTION 8 in Quiz on the lesson "Odds & Outs":

      How often do you have to hit to be able to call profitably, when the pot odds are 4 to 1?

      Correct answer - Every fifth time. (1 Points)

      My question – If pot odds are 4 to 1, our odds have to be 3 to 1 to make a profitable call. That means that we have to hit every fourth time to call profitably.

      Thus the correct answer should be – every fourth time.

      Is this a mistake?
    • dzeminis
      dzeminis
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      Joined: 05.12.2012 Posts: 1
      Hi all.

      Im reading article: The Basics (4): Why do you bet? and im confused with all this now. Could someone explain to me part: The Three Types Of Bets In Practice first example?
      How do you know what combos to count? because its marked only few of them but i see that more combos would have biger chance to win... Like AA as pocket pair. Am i right? I think dis article need to be more detailed for dummies like me hahaha
    • ChoChikun
      ChoChikun
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      Joined: 15.10.2008 Posts: 291
      Originally posted by PipiRedstar
      QUESTION 8 in Quiz on the lesson "Odds & Outs":

      How often do you have to hit to be able to call profitably, when the pot odds are 4 to 1?

      Correct answer - Every fifth time. (1 Points)

      My question – If pot odds are 4 to 1, our odds have to be 3 to 1 to make a profitable call. That means that we have to hit every fourth time to call profitably.

      Thus the correct answer should be – every fourth time.

      Is this a mistake?
      Pot odds are 4:1. Question is how often you have to hit/win to make profit.

      This is situation when villain bet 100 in 300 pot and you have 100 to call (4:1 odds). you have to hit/win every fifth time or 20%+ to make profit.

      Why you think that 3:1 odds makes profitable call?
    • PipiRedstar
      PipiRedstar
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      Joined: 09.12.2012 Posts: 26
      Thanks ChoChikun for participating!

      My point is – with 4 to 1 pot odds, by definition, we need 3 to 1 odds to make a profitable call, which means we have to hit every fourth time to make a profitable call.

      If we hit every fifth time we are brake even.

      That’s my point. I could be wrong.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,915
      Hi, PipiRedstar...
      I can't be certain of the author's intent, but the reason calling w/ 4:1 odds when you have 4:1 pot odds is profitable is that you can get more on later streets. Although this is not explicitly stated.

      Also, often, even if we miss our draw, we can take the pot down with a bluff on a later street,.

      Another though:
      If the pot odds are exactly 4:1, then we could have 3.8:1 and it would still be profitable in the long run, even if we NEVER get anything on later streets.

      When I did the beginner's course, there was a formula that you could use to determine how much you needed on later streets to make a call even when you did not have the strict odds to make the call.

      Boomer -- do you know which formula I'm talking about?

      Thanks,
      --VS
    • Boomer2k10
      Boomer2k10
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      Joined: 22.09.2010 Posts: 2,551
      With regard to pot odds 4:1 (four to one) translates to 1/5 (One in five) so 20%

      The calculation goes as follows

      Current Pot: $4
      To Call: $1

      Final Pot Size: $5

      Equation:

      EV of Call = Price to Call * (Win%/100) * Final Pot Size

      In order to break-even the EV(Call) has to equal the Price of Calling

      So replacing the words with known figures:

      $1 = $1 * (Win%/100) * $5

      Re-arrange a little and you get Win % = 1/5 * 100

      So, in reality, you have to win 20.00000(etc)1% of the time to profit.

      Win % = 20% or 1/5 to breakeven
    • acephalia
      acephalia
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      Joined: 22.12.2012 Posts: 60
      sorry, i found out the answer to my question.
    • miamia78
      miamia78
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      Joined: 01.08.2011 Posts: 4
      ok,i really dont understand this 9 Outs / 47 possible cards = 0,19 = 19% ~ 4 to 1.why 4 to 1,its 5 to 1,if can someone example me simple
    • thazar
      thazar
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      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Originally posted by miamia78
      ok,i really dont understand this 9 Outs / 47 possible cards = 0,19 = 19% ~ 4 to 1.why 4 to 1,its 5 to 1,if can someone example me simple
      4:1 = 80%:20%

      does it make more sense?
    • PerusJamppa
      PerusJamppa
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 2,714
      ok,i really dont understand this 9 Outs / 47 possible cards = 0,19 = 19% ~ 4 to 1.why 4 to 1,its 5 to 1,if can someone example me simple

      It can be a bit confusing. But that 4:1 means that you win one time and lose four times.
    • drakgun
      drakgun
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2013 Posts: 16
      How can you give yourself implied odds?

      I am not getting this concept quite well.


      When is your turn and the pot odds are smaller than your odds, how do you solve it? Just Raise it? Pay (limp) to see the turn?


      Thanks in advance

      All the best,
      Drakgun
    • Sanguinius
      Sanguinius
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.10.2013 Posts: 1
      Hey there! The video for the odds & outs lesson is currently not available.

      Edit: Not entirely true. I can watch them in Internet Explorer but not with Chrome.
    • Zukes
      Zukes
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.08.2009 Posts: 183
      Hi! I've been messing around in excel trying to make a simple pot odds calculator and was wondering if anyone could check my maths?

      To calculate whether we satisfy pot odds:

      On the flop:
      ($call / $pot) > [1 / (outs / 47)] - 1

      On the turn:
      ($call / $pot) > [1 / (outs / 46)] - 1

      If I want to calculate the amount we are required to win on the next street in order to satisfy implied odds:

      For Flop to Turn:
      $required = [($Call / $Pot) - (1 / (Outs / 47) - 1)] * $Call

      And Turn to River:
      $required = [($Call / $Pot) - (1 / (Outs / 46) -1)] * $Call
    • MaxLange
      MaxLange
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2014 Posts: 195
      Originally posted by jdm159
      I am new to poker. Why is the button the in position when the big blind is the last person to act?
      Just think like other card games where the dealer has to act last it's the same with the button.
    • StartlingGrope
      StartlingGrope
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2014 Posts: 67
      I've just had a bit of a Eureka moment on question eight here after getting it wrong and I'm hoping that somebody will confirm whether or not I'm right. At first I was convinced that the question was written badly and that it was simply a break even situation but...

      Regardless of whether you call or fold every time your pot odds match the odds offered then you break even on later streets. The difference is actually in the pre-flop action. If you're playing the hand, you necessarily have to put money into the middle before the flop. If you call at break even odds every time then you're going to split the pre-flop pot evenly with your opponent in the long run. If you fold though, you're just handing your pre-flop bet to your opponent every time.

      I'm still not convinced that it can be deemed 'profitable' but calling 4/1 against 4/1 after the flop will definitely plug a huge leak if you're usually laying those hands down and waiting for the odds on the turn and river to be in your favour.

      I can't believe that I've only just recognised the importance of this with such clarity. :f_biggrin:
    • ShadyGod
      ShadyGod
      Basic
      Joined: 18.09.2014 Posts: 1
      I was looking over the odds and outs lesson and was confused as to how there are five outs for two pair/trips? Can someone explain this to me?
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,915
      Originally posted by ShadyGod
      I was looking over the odds and outs lesson and was confused as to how there are five outs for two pair/trips? Can someone explain this to me?
      Hi, ShadyGod
      Welcome to PokerStrategy.com forums!

      Can you provide a link to the lesson in question?
      I'll make a guess that you mean this one:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/others/2279/1/

      and are referring to this situation:
      K:s9 on Q:c9:d2
      In the second column the outs are given.
      We have 3 other kings that will give us two pair, and two other 9s that will give us trips.

      Does that help?
      Or did I miss something?

      Best of luck,
      --VS