Midlife Crisis? What Midlife Crisis?

Originally posted by EmanuelC16

Originally posted by Alficor1

Originally posted by fusionpk
Alficor if u 3b fold QQ then u may aswell have 72o right? He is way more likely to 4b than flat imo.

Yes. Whats wrong with 3bet folding? If you just call, you have no idea what he has. He can have KJo, AA or T9s. By 3betting you get some info. If he folds or calls, you have the best hand. If he 4bets, you dont.

Anyway i was saying what i would have done, im not saying its 100% correct.

I agree with fusionpk. Basically, it's probably still is +EV to 3b QQ but it's even more +EV to call an play IP postflop.

Btw, if you bet or raise for information you are doing it wrong Alf... ♦

Exactly my point if he UTG raises pairs big broadways and only goes broke QQ+,AK then sure 3b'ing is +EV but then think about all the range he folds that we crush, for sure we get immediate value, but what about the value we COULD get postflop vs alot of his range, what does he do with AJ vs our 3b? snap fold we pickup the pot pre, but what about the times he flops J high board & stacks off or the times he flops draws. Anyway my point is 3b'ing QQ in that spot is fine if his range is QQ+,AK, but you are never 3b/folding thats just such a big leak imo. And I just think @ this limit where ppl play far from perfect post flop, why don't we flat IP and just own his soul postflop. I mean by 3b'ing we practically give him the choice to play perfect. (Assuming hes unknown. No image/meta-game etc.)

I played Manu HU for play money rolls tonight, as advertised, and lost 3-2 (KK<AJ AI Pre final hand. ), so I didn't make an idiot of myself (still too much bluffing ofc), and yet I ended up with the same roll I started with. Why was this? We were going to play on two tables. A random donk sits down, and I beat him! HU is fun. At least it is with play money.

Played a couple of hundred hands of NL10 after that without spewing or calling 3bets OOP or getting AI preflop with TT. Ended up +1BI. For me, this is an achievement.

I have some ideas about simple mathematical models for the preflop 3bet/4bet/shove game, which I will try to find the time to develop soon, if only to irritate TT (NLHE is about people, not maths, blah, blah. I need to get my retaliation in first before he 'berates' me tomorrow!).

I left a question for you in my blog jb don't know how frequently you read it so I thought I'd tell you here too ♦

Originally posted by jbpatzer
And btw, was I the only one who thought KK<AA, QQ<KK, JJ<QQ, TT<JJ, all in one session was tragically funny, however badly I played some of them?

I thought it was very funny . That is how it feels/is when I start playing the downward spiral style. You readjust your game to the 'what the hell, he is going all in with any pair! I need to adjust range', and then those things happen. A very precise account of the reality of a poker player in his darkest moments

Edit: I forgot -> About the QQ discussion, in order for an all in there to be a break-even play, I think you need to assume that UTG is pushing with something like {44+,AJ+,KQs} or around those lines.

Hey, I read the first few pages and the last few pages and I think I like this blog I can't help it though, because:

Porcupine Tree are awesome! Had the chance to see them a year ago when they were in Melbourne, it was magical ♦

Chess is awesome too I haven't played in about six years though. I was ~ 1700 as a junior, but grew tired of the pressure of tournaments and simply lost interest (and now I play poker, go figure)

Oh and I'm a Derren Brown fanboy too (what kind of psychology student isn't?)

On the hands (shocking that all these were perfect setups...):

KK: I've been getting this a lot lately, it seems they always have aces when they raise me, but nothing can be done about it.
QQ: This is a standard fold for me, after the 4bet. Maybe if they're super laggy...
JJ: I'd just call the 3bet.
TT: I'd be folding to his 3bet.

I don't play 6max though, and I play 2NL Also I'm pretty damn tight. I'll be moving to 5NL soon, within a few days if I have another session like today's

Also I wouldn't have guessed that a maths professor could be tilt-prone I suppose noone is immune.

Originally posted by zxc2323
Hey, I read the first few pages and the last few pages and I think I like this blog I can't help it though, because:

Porcupine Tree are awesome! Had the chance to see them a year ago when they were in Melbourne, it was magical ♦

Also I wouldn't have guessed that a maths professor could be tilt-prone I suppose noone is immune.

At last, someone else who likes PT!

Tilting? I must be human (almost).

Glad you like the blog.

So, to cheer me up after treading in the poo that the kitten did on the kitchen floor, and in honour of the arrival of a fellow Porcupine Tree fan, here's the best song you've never heard before (unless you're me or zxc2323 ofc! ♠_cool: )

Originally posted by zxc2323
Hey, I read the first few pages and the last few pages and I think I like this blog I can't help it though, because:

Porcupine Tree are awesome! Had the chance to see them a year ago when they were in Melbourne, it was magical ♦

Chess is awesome too I haven't played in about six years though. I was ~ 1700 as a junior, but grew tired of the pressure of tournaments and simply lost interest (and now I play poker, go figure)

Oh and I'm a Derren Brown fanboy too (what kind of psychology student isn't?)

On the hands (shocking that all these were perfect setups...):

KK: I've been getting this a lot lately, it seems they always have aces when they raise me, but nothing can be done about it.
QQ: This is a standard fold for me, after the 4bet. Maybe if they're super laggy...
JJ: I'd just call the 3bet.
TT: I'd be folding to his 3bet.

I don't play 6max though, and I play 2NL Also I'm pretty damn tight. I'll be moving to 5NL soon, within a few days if I have another session like today's

Also I wouldn't have guessed that a maths professor could be tilt-prone I suppose noone is immune.

You have a massive leak if you 3b/fold QQ without reads. Imo the ONLY time you can 3b fold QQ is if you have a read that villain flats 3b and only goes broke KK+ otherwise its super standard ship once you 3b. I mean cmon just think abt it, it makes sense if they go broke QQ+/AK (or wider) once you 3b folding is out of the question. The question is whether you 3b or flat QQ in the first place, vs unknown its hard to say and in general I think ppl agree that both are +EV, with reads you can then make the most +EV decision.

coaching with jb in 1 hour ... muhahaha, waiting for so long to kick a prof's ass ♠_biggrin:

Originally posted by fusionpk
Imo the ONLY time you can 3b fold QQ is if you have a read that villain flats 3b and only goes broke KK+ otherwise its super standard ship once you 3b.

I played over 100k hands micros and i can tell you one thing: 95% of players go broke with AA and KK only. 4% is willing move in with AK and QQ. The 1% remaining (represented by tilted NL2 players who came to the table with $6,84) shoves any two. That's why i 3bet fold against most players. That's the way i play, if you play differently and it works for you, go ahead and keep on playing like that.

Originally posted by TwiceT
coaching with jb in 1 hour ... muhahaha, waiting for so long to kick a prof's ass ♠_biggrin:

Thanks for the insight into your coaching style. I just trod in cat poo, and am feeling a little testy, so watch it matey!

Originally posted by Alficor1

Originally posted by fusionpk
Imo the ONLY time you can 3b fold QQ is if you have a read that villain flats 3b and only goes broke KK+ otherwise its super standard ship once you 3b.

I played over 100k hands micros and i can tell you one thing: 95% of players go broke with AA and KK only. 4% is willing move in with AK and QQ. The 1% remaining (represented by tilted NL2 players who came to the table with $6,84) shoves any two. That's why i 3bet fold against most players. That's the way i play, if you play differently and it works for you, go ahead and keep on playing like that.

So why 3b it then? fyi I alw 3b/broke it in later positions and flat vs UTG or nitty UTG+1, seems the most +EV play for me. I also have abt 100k hands at NL10 & NL10 rush and I am in profit with QQ so I guess we both play it +EV.

Originally posted by fusionpk
So why 3b it then?

I dont know, maybe to get value from worse hands like JJ/TT/99/...?

Originally posted by fusionpk
fyi I alw 3b/broke it in later positions and flat vs UTG or nitty UTG+1, seems the most +EV play for me. I also have abt 100k hands at NL10 & NL10 rush and I am in profit with QQ so I guess we both play it +EV.

If i understand it right, if 10/8 nit raises from UTG you just call, but if the same nit opens from LP you 3bet/broke?

But yea, whatever, i'm in profit with QQ as well so both plays work fine obv.

I flat vs UTG alw, just my style (unless mega fish), the thing is though, and this is really my point, the point is not should I 3b or should I not, both plays in general are +EV. But the point is should I 3b/fold or 3b/call, the answer is imo 3b/call or don't bother 3b'ing at all. If you 3b/fold vs a std ABC tag you don't get value from 99-JJ because they will just fold them, they rarely flat 3b with them? If we get a read they do this then for sure, we can 3b/(possibly fold QQ but still not even yet can we fold), they also have to not go broke with QQ/AK for us to fold QQ in this spot. Also vs unknown, their range is sometimes wider than this, TT/JJ/AQ go broke. So we make big mistake folding. Like I say only time 3b/fold is +EV is when we know villain only ships KK+ and flats worse. Vs nit UTG I just flat anyway because we keep in his 88-JJ/AJ/AQ/KQ hands where we can crush them post flop. I just think we may aswell be 3b'ing 78s if we are planning to fold to 4b.

fusionpk is absolutely 100% right. 3bet/folding hands like JJ/QQ is just burning money. Against a standard TAG, I like flatting with these hands to keep his range wide with hands you absolutely crush.

@fusion and alf: The only way to settle this is ONE HU SUPER TURBO SNG 4 ROLLZ and winner is right, loser is wrong.

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
@fusion and alf: The only way to settle this is ONE HU SUPER TURBO SNG 4 ROLLZ and winner is right, loser is wrong.

har har

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
@fusion and alf: The only way to settle this is ONE HU SUPER TURBO SNG 4 ROLLZ and winner is right, loser is wrong.

Well, I've been tempted to write 'take it outside chaps!', and this suggestion seems to me to be the nearest poker equivalent. In rl you could just see who could piss the highest.

Nice tune.

Glad someone's paying attention to the important stuff. Although all that 3bet horn locking certainly made me think about it (QQ, not horns).

So, had my first coaching with TT. For all you geeks out there.

for i = 1:100
TT: So why are you betting there?
JB: Errrrrrrrrrrrr
end

Considering he said he was going to 'kick my ass', I thought he was very understanding of my mental frailties. Maybe the cat poo story got me some sympathy.

I need to pretend that he's watching all the time and justify all my decisions, so I will be doing a lot of talking to myself in the future, which won't matter as my family already thinks I'm mad. He made me play a table of rush NL10 too, which I enjoyed. But my HEM refused to give me a HUD for the rush table. Anybody want to tell me how to get a HEM rush HUD working??

You really can play a shitload of hands quickly three tabling rush (about 750 per hour I reckon). This is the way to go I think.

And as a nice end to the month, after 1K hands tonight, even after losing set over set twice (!) I finished 1BI up, and just scraped silver iron man.

Onwards and upwards!